Please read my post, immediately preceding yours.
The appeal of the Barclays Arrival card?
- Thread starter b_c
- Start date
ACL
Level 2 Member
I'm sure someone is @MotownMan ... I had the brilliant idea of trying to use that general idea to generate points but my test run didn't work out in my favour hahaMissed that! Oops! You're math is appreciated too, I hadn't gotten it down yet.
@ACL- Love the rounding strategy, haha. I hope some travel hacker out there is diligently taking that into consideration with gift cards
If we really want to get technical about the return, shouldn't we also count the points you earn for the charge you redeem against?
If you redeem against a $1,000 charge you're earning 2,000 points, or $20 for the charge itself, which you are using points to pay off.
If you redeem against a $1,000 charge you're earning 2,000 points, or $20 for the charge itself, which you are using points to pay off.
This is exactly the same thing we've been saying. See calculation above.
Missed your post, sorry, I just saw someone saying 2.222222222%.
MarkD
Level 2 Member
I ended up applying this week and got the dreaded "unable to give you a decision at this moment" message. I just checked the status page and it says they are unable to give me a card at this time and they will mail me an explanation.
I'm done with Barclays. I'm cancelling my last US Airways card.
F
Fuerza
Guest
Even more reason Arrival sucks, you have to deal with the high and mighty attitude of Barclay Bank.
I personally love this card because it can be quite profitable for an MSer who has moved beyond collecting miles and points and wants to put some cash in the bank. I've found it to be roughly on par with the Fido, maybe even a bit better. Diversification is key and this issuer is pretty lenient once you get past the app.
Mountain Trader
Level 2 Member
I just got an Arrivals card and am excited to have it. The FIDO card is very good but Arrivals has no forex fee, and its acceptance should be much better since it is not Amex. Also, chip and pin should be an advantage overseas, though we'll have to see how that works out.
Agreed. Once you have the card, it's a relatively hassle-free experience. You can transfer credit limits from other cards and get quite high limit making it useful for MSing in volume. They typically waive AF so little reason not to take advantage of the extra 0.2%.
The downside is it's not a straight cashback card and hence you have to play the refund game if you want to cash out for non-travel expenses.
For straight cash back, hassle-free experience, I like the Cap1 Spark Biz cards. Redeem any amount and cashback posts as soon as the charges post. Downside is they pull from all 3 credit bureaus. Upside is I've been getting $500 signup bonus offers in the mail and they let you have multiple cards. There are $300 public offers found on the web.
Now we're talking. I'm looking at the 2% everywhere card. How lenient are they with what they consider a "business?" I'd love to MS the daylights out of a card like this. Sounds like a great card for Redbird too.
MarkD
Level 2 Member
First few large charges were flagged ($8K initial charge on $10K CL which seems reasonable tripwire for a fraud alert) - second account no flags but I have a $15K CL and only done $10K max charge. But after the first few flags, none since and been smooth sailing. I used a "business" that's been dormant for 10+ years. Grabbed a few cards. Nice thing is Authorized Users get their own card number so you don't run into as many limits when loading Buxx et al. Also, one month they simply cut me a check for ~$160 to zero out my end of month statement balance. Have no idea why.
The Citi Double Cash card is also a contender for MSing methinks. No signup bonus, but whenever I have a Citi card I want to cancel (TYP, AA and Hilton), I do a product change to a DC (2% and no annual fee). Not as nice for cashback as you have to redeem in $25 increments and only get the full 2% on payment of charges (and not when charges post like the Spark cards). And I think they only award cashback when the statement cuts, but honestly, I haven't paid that much attention.
F
Fuerza
Guest
Just say no The break even point of spending for Arrival plus to be profitable is $47k dollars in spending. Any other 2 points card With a no annual fee would be a deal unless you are going heavy hitter status on a 2 points card.You know that you are just taunting me, right???
What math are you using? To cover the annual fee you need to spend $4450 (ignore the 10% rebate). Or are you talking something else?
And I found it somewhat easy to get the AF waived. It's still a very usable card for me, unless I missed where the 47k came from
.I think he means that when comparing a $89 AF 2.27% card with a zero AF 2% card, they both yield the same cashback at annual spend of $32,633. Spend more than that, and the Arrival wins; spend less and it loses.
Another way to think about it --
Spending $3,916 on the Arrival to negate the AF could have yielded $78.32 with the no AF card. So you need to spend $3,446.08 more to close the gap, but for this the AF card made $68.92 extra. The 0.27% gap is exactly what makes the Arrival win the race after $32k.
Another way to think about it --
Spending $3,916 on the Arrival to negate the AF could have yielded $78.32 with the no AF card. So you need to spend $3,446.08 more to close the gap, but for this the AF card made $68.92 extra. The 0.27% gap is exactly what makes the Arrival win the race after $32k.
Ok, thanks, I think I get what he's saying now. Sorry for not understanding right away.
That also assumes you actually PAY the annual fee, which is waived the first year, right?
What kind of signup bonuses do these other 2% cards offer? If you're getting 400/440 as a bonus right up front, one of these other cards had better offer a pretty hefty bonus if we're trying to count $89 after the second year as a negative. Eh?
Now, I'll agree ... Barclays can be difficult to work with as far as apps go. I threw together an app for my wife a short while ago and screwed up, and was denied. Calling in was worthless. Wasted HP, but it was a learning experience for me. I know what to do differently next time.
I don't think anyone says Arrival is a bad card for the first year, when you get a signup bonus as well as AF waiver. If AF is waived for the next year, it surely comes ahead too. The only question is whether it's worth keeping when AF is not waived.
Not sure I get you. Any card is better through portals; we need to compare the edge the Arrival has (or doesn't have).
F
Fuerza
Guest
My math:
Arrival: .022 * $47687 = $1049.11 - $89 = $960.11
2 points card: .02 * $48000 = $960
So you have to spend $47687 to make a profit with Arrival. And redeem it for travel only.
Arrival: .022 * $47687 = $1049.11 - $89 = $960.11
2 points card: .02 * $48000 = $960
So you have to spend $47687 to make a profit with Arrival. And redeem it for travel only.
F
Fuerza
Guest
This is also true. First year Arrival is a "deal" with the bonus and no annual fee.
Your "math" assumes several things:
1) That you are on year 7 of the Arrival, since the 40K signup bonus is worth $444 and that's ~5 years of AFs. Plus first year AF is waived. So you are ahead for 6 years even IF you pay the AF.
2) That you pay the AF - many people have rec'd AF waivers by calling.
3) You can effectively cash out using refundable instruments (and get an additional 10% rebate as well).
Arrival is the best (non-5%) cashback product out there due to its higher earn rate, and most importantly, the very attractive signup bonus.
For some reason you seem to tie multiple years together.
The signup bonus does not "pay for" 6 years. Once you got it, it's your money to keep, and paying the AF next year (assuming it's not waived) comes OOP.
Wouldn't call it best cashback, but it's a good one.
Wouldn't also call @Fuerza's calculation quote-math-quote as it's solid and in line with mine (just that he treats it as a 2.2% card and I as a 2.27% one, and that's why he ended up with $48k and I with $32k).
Last edited:
That "reason" is the signup bonus. That is part and parcel of it's earning proposition. You can't simply ignore it as you seem to want to do. If someone want's to "pay" for the AF for 5 years with the bonus money, what's stopping them? (Actually, since you can earn interest on that $444 during the 5 years, should let you pay the AF for 6+ years).
Of course, your math is "solid", so long as you ignore that one rather large signup bonus...
Too bad you're not getting it; feel free to re-read sentence #2 in my reply above.
Over and out.
P.S.
Perhaps you're too used to FT, but there's no need for a "hostile" attitude --- here at "Saverocity" we're all nice people.
Sorry, you can't simply ignore the signup bonus no matter how much you try.
As for your "P.S.", that snarky passive aggressive tone is perfect for FT...
derek
Level 2 Member
Lol @FT being used as an insult. anyway, isnt a huge factor the fact that this card is churnable every year (or more)? People dont talk about it much since barclays is tough, but if your credit is solid with not a lot of inqs, can't you churn this as much as you want for the sign up?
MickiSue
Level 2 Member
Even economists disagree on what factors to consider when appraising the financial life of the planet. It's not surprising that MSers would do the same.
If you want to ignore the sign up bonus as an offset to an AF, that's your prerogative. But it doesn't make someone who includes it in the calc wrong.
You (or I) may privately think a poster is an ignorant arrogant SOB. But it's probably wise to keep that belief, and tone indicating, out of our posts.
If you want to ignore the sign up bonus as an offset to an AF, that's your prerogative. But it doesn't make someone who includes it in the calc wrong.
You (or I) may privately think a poster is an ignorant arrogant SOB. But it's probably wise to keep that belief, and tone indicating, out of our posts.
Sign-up bonus, as its name may indicate, is given for signing up and meeting the spend threshold. After this happens, you may as well close the card and go on with your life (as many have done with the Citi AA 100k offer).
Once the money is in your pocket, it's colorless. There's no difference between saying "AF is paid for by card's sign-up bonus", "AF is paid for by my $500 lottery win yesterday" or "AF is paid for by a shiny Benjamin Franklin".
Including it in the calculation is as shortsighted as saying "I had a $490 Best Buy gift card, so I paid only $10 for an unlocked iPad Air 2".
F
Fuerza
Guest
$444 dollars isn't ~5 years of annual fees unless Barclay says that the annual fee is "travel". barclay miles are only valued at 50% unless redeemed for travel so your lucky to get ~3 years annual fees if your considering the bonus as an annual fee coverage.
The sign up bonus is nice I admit, but the fact they charge an $89 annual fee for essentially no benefits I don't see the appeal.
They do allow you to redeem against AF at 1:1, with 10% rebate.
wasser
Level 2 Member
Even though I had three Barclay cards, I applied for this one for all the reasons people have given - plus one more. Of course it didn’t get automatically approved, so I immediately called the recon line and said I needed a true chip & pin card for driving in Europe. Many stations offer no alternative way of paying if an attendant isn’t present (like on their numerous fake holidays). The recon guy accepted my rationale and approved me. And when I found myself at a self-service station on a Sunday, I did a happy dance when I successfully swiped card and punched in the magic code.