This is travel points like the Barclay Arrival. Their cash back card pays less.
Citi DoubleCash
- Thread starter arathorn
- Start date
Good point, I should have been clearer, it is just that with the ability to do any of the broad MCCs they call travel and to go back 6 months online and 12 months via phone, I do not even think about it not being a direct CB card.
Voyaging Doc
Level 2 Member
That's a good point. They still don't like taking amex abroad but that's a PITA they charge a fee.
R
RamboAroundTheWorld
Guest
I'm going to try to switch out my remaining AA Exec card to this so that I can keep my credit line and try to get an AF refund. Will report back next week.
ed1chandler
Level 2 Member
That's a great thought ... been wondering what I was going to do with all these AA Exec cards I have sitting around. ;-)
F
Fuerza
Guest
Bummer don't want to pay the annual fee....
Unless that card is a year old you can't PC it.
And my shitty little Citi Hilton card.I think I know what to do with my old TYP formerly 5x card.
R
RamboAroundTheWorld
Guest
Is this a Citi rule?
Seems to me that this should present some kind of opportunity, but I have my weekend brain on and can't figure out how to capitalize. Any ideas?
Max out on more GC than you can liquidate in a month, pay off by 15 months.
ed1chandler
Level 2 Member
Assuming that's the non-Reserve version.
The Reserve version's gold status and free weekend night makes it feces-free in my opinion.
ctbarron
Level 2 Member
This is interesting as I was going to PC my Dividend card over once my Citi accounts settle down.
I'd rather have the Amex card, once my gold status expires in 2016. Not to mention the category bonuses with Amex work better for my spending. If Hilton would waive FTF at Hilton hotels world wide I would keep the Surpass without a second though. I just prefer Amex to Citi, granted the Citi card does waive the FTFs, so there's that, and 2HH points in't enough to sweat. Hilton is just so far down on my list of things I care about, points wise, that I don't want to decide right now. =P
Thread merged and pulled out of L2 and into general population. Please focus conversation here on the product, rather than its applications.
I did a bit of a hack job on the comments to keep them PG 13, my apologies if that annoys anyone, will start up new threads to cover the issues raised in L2.
I did a bit of a hack job on the comments to keep them PG 13, my apologies if that annoys anyone, will start up new threads to cover the issues raised in L2.
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I think you cannot change product because of the Credit Card Act of 2009. Nothing to do with Citi per se.
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RamboAroundTheWorld
Guest
Someone quoted me this the other day on FT when I brought the same thing up. I just PC'ed a BOA Virgin card to their Travel Rewards card. I haven't had the Virgin card for a year, so maybe they make exceptions? I don't know.
Really interesting data point. Intrigued, but again who of hasn't run across someone who had no idea what a rule was in the customer service realm? Cuts both ways. Sometimes in our favor and sometimes not.
It's more a function of the fee for a card, that can't change within the first year. Gary Leff just did a post about it.
TravelRewards card has no annual fee and Virgin has $90 fee usually not waived.
The excitement of the week is the new Citi DoubleCash card. There have been a number of posts from the 1099 contractors who work for Citi about this card, two I noticed were View from the Wing and then at time of writing this, The Points Guy (he won the SEO battle!) so lets look at this from a more objective perspective. More objective because I am not being compensated by Citibank to highlight their products to my readers.
Is it a 2% cash back card?
The lads are careful to point out it is a 1% and 1% card in their marketing copy, but then they do go onto say that it’s 2%, here is a comment by Leff:
I favor points over cash back. But I also recognized that if I’m doing any un-bonused spend, I’m effectively buying points at 2 cents apiece, since I could otherwise be earning two cents per dollar spent.- View from the Wing
Brian, The Points Guy:
Also, I left out the 2% cash back Fidelity Amex since it requires you to have a Fidelity account; its earnings would be equal to those of Double Cash. – The Points Guy
So, once they get over the marketing copy and add in their own ‘take on things, they both think of this as being a 2% card. So why doesn’t Citi just call it a 2% card? Well, because it isn’t a 2% card it is 1% and 1%. 1% when you earn, and 1% when you pay off.
Why would Citibank do that?
Could it be possible that there is more to the math than meets the eye? Hell yeah it can. But don’t let that stop you from selling the card folks. If you check out the terms and conditions from the DoubleCash card you will see the following:
The Purchase Tracker Clause
You will also earn 1% cash back on payments you make that appear on your current month’s billing statement as long as the amount paid is at least the Minimum Payment Due that is printed on your billing statement and there is a balance in the Purchase Tracker. The balance in the Purchase Tracker is reduced by eligible payments you make. When the Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won’t earn cash back on payments until more eligible purchases are made. – Citibank DoubleCash Terms and Conditions
I know Ts & Cs are such a drag… so let me do some snipping for you folks:
You will also earn 1% cash back on payments… (If)…. there is a balance in the Purchase Tracker… (and)… When the Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won’t earn cash back on payment
So what’s wrong with that? Still 2% right?
Nope. It’s 1% AND 1%, that isn’t 2%.
- Spend $1000 on your Fidelity Amex, you get $20 back providing your account is in good order. You get it back at the end of that cycle.
- Spend $1000 on your Citi DoubleCash and you get $10 back, and another $10 when you have paid down the Purchase Tracker.
A slight difference I hear you cry!
Ok – what happens if you spend $1,000 on the Fidelity Amex and pay the balance before your statement closes? how much do you earn? $20 right!
What happens if you spend $1,000 on the Citi DoubleCash and pay the balance before your statement closes? Does the Purchase Tracker go up, or do mid statement payments reduce it? Remember, the phrase ‘ Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won’t earn cash back on payment? I called into Citi to explore this, and they confirmed that the Purchase Tracker updates at the end of the month. So, if you pay down a balance mid month, that just became 1% spend and 0% pay off bonus.
Think about it – Month 1 balance zero, spend $1,000, pay off mid month you certainly earn nothing that month for payoff as your tracker is zero. Month 2… well there is confusion. Maybe your $1,000 posts as Purchase Tracker valid spend, but you have no balance, so you are always behind, or maybe it doesn’t post at all, because you paid it down early.
Whichever you slice and dice that it ain’t a 2% card lads.
Let’s make the Citi DoubleCash the best card ever!
So the Points Guy decided the route to take was to compare it to 1% cards. Guess what… it won! He excluded the 2% Fidelity Amex from the scientific experiment by claiming it wasn’t comparable because you have to have Fidelity Account. So go get a fricking Fidelity Account. Sweet holy mother of all things that drive me bonkers! You get the Cash Management Account here, for free, and it even comes with a Debit Card that refunds ATM fees!
Leff claims the Fidelity Card earning 2% is inferior because not everywhere takes Amex. True… but there are very few, very strange places that exclusively don’t take Amex.
No Amex Accepted sir!
You see the ‘we don’t take Amex argument is overplayed because non-category spend is already a subset of total credit card spend, and then within that subset of non-category only some merchants don’t accept Amex, for that fraction of a fraction, you can use the Arrival, or heck, just earn 1x Ultimate Reward.
Keep on thinking my friends.
The post Citi DoubleCash Scam, sham or shazam? appeared first on Travel.
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I am as well. Really liked your post and thought it was well thought out. Loved the GL graphic
While you did call Citi, we all know how reliable phone reps can be. We'll have to wait and see for sure once people start getting the card. This might be Citi's ploy to make people report balances in order to get the most cash back. Not a bad move on their part.
Yep, I acknowledge that the person I spoke with quite likely didn't know their arse from their elbow. I feel something is fishy, and they are certainly up to something, else they would just go - 2% flat.
I think you're right, but it could have been a marketing ploy to stand out. Doubt it, but I can hope!
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RamboAroundTheWorld
Guest
Man, Gary's really into some interesting cosplay...
Interestingly, Citi Twitter Team says you get the second 1% regardless of when you pay the balance off, even if it's before a statement closes.
They probably know better than the people I spoke with.
Exactly my thinking. They're usually more knowledgable and more empowered to help. Not to mention they are US based.
I like to PC to useful cards with low/no sign up bonuses.
Its a mix and the banks apply different rules. I have (had?) been planning to flip all my AA Execs to dividend for a hoped 5% Q1 drugstores. Citi takes about 51 days + a few to do a PC.
The rule change in the CARD ACT of 2009 is that in the first year CC companies cannot bait / switch into a product with worse terms than the initial offer. The worse terms is an any standard. So, if the interest rate is higher, no PC for a year. If the new card has an AF and the old one didn't, no PC. It probably gets as granular as the number of float days. I know from experience Amex has a hard rule on PC within a year. I tried to bump the base Hilton to Surpass for a 50k bump and they wouldn't do it. Hit month 13 and it sailed through.
I have done multiple PC with Citi, but they have all been older-ish cards. The last few years I tried to change affinity cards (Marriott I think) to Freedom with Chase, but they only do PC within their UR family (e.g. CSP to Freedom, Slate to Freedom). Barclays offered to change a US Air card to Arrival (base). I didn't think to ask for Travelocity which has its uses. Discover changed from More to It without issue.
With Dividend potentially going away I may call and see if I can move an AA Exec or two to dividend in the next day or two. I have limited interest in the 2% card (since I have several). Ironically it was the closure of my 2% schwab card that got me into bonus harvesting and eventually MS.
Not sure if the Dividend is gone for good or not, although if you try to go to what used to be the link, you get the new Citi DoubleCash offer instead. Just as a data point, my husband was trying to trade out an old Citi AA mastercard for the Dividend right before the announcement of the DoubleCash and they said no. Seemed like it would be a good trade, so I was puzzled, then a few days later the new card appeared on the horizon. Not sure what it means, but just of interest.