Travel Money

[Matt]

Wanted to share some datapoints, and perhaps build out a resource to make us more efficient when traveling.

Basics

No FX!
If paying with a credit card ensure that there are no FX fees attached. While in the Westin last week I watched a guy pay with a SPG card. Note that this card will become a no FX card shortly, but for that transaction he earned 2 SPG for 2.7%. I deferred to the CSP for 2 URs for 0%.

No Dynamic Currency Conversion!
If you are asked to charge local currency or USD always elect local currency. I think many people screw this up. If you agree to being charged in USD they calculate the USD at very unfavorable rates.

ATM Fees
There are two types of good cards, one will not charge you for using the overseas ATM, the other will reimburse you the fees that you pay (often to a cap).

• CitiGold Debit - no additional charge (no reimbursement)
• Fidelity Debit - reimbursement (I believe)

(If you have datapoints I can build this out into a Wiki)

Some Examples
Here's some example rates from my recent trip to Mexico, we ate out a lot more than this, but I'm having trouble reconciling receipts that included tip etc..

Datapoints:

• Airport Exchange Booth offered around 12.5 MXP per USD.
• Airport (and some other) vendors offered 10 MXP per USD, EG a cab from CUN to Hotel District was quoted at 640 MXP or $64..
• In more competitive environments locals offered 14-14.5MXP per USD.
• I pulled daily rates from OANDA.com to highlight spread.

Table



Charts

Chart 1 shows exchange rates per $100 USD at 5 locations, Blue are ATM withdrawals, green for Credit Card transactions with the CSP.


The Spreads
The above chart may be misleading due to the underlying rate changing, so here is the spread between the 'official' rate for each respective day, and Oanda.com. Blue for ATM withdrawals, green for CC spreads. Note the worst result was the ATM at the Isla mall in Cancun, this was mainly due to the added on transaction fee....




Is it a big deal?
We were in Mexico for 7 days, if we were to have spent 10,000 MXP in the worst possible way that would have cost us $1,000 USD. In the best possible way (via credit card) it would average out to $625. However, in reality you would have a mix of prices, the worst (10:1) primarily at tourist traps such as the airport, and then perhaps closer to 14. As such 10,000 MXP may average out to closer to $800.

 

[Tc234]

Additional information from my travels in Spain.
CapitalOne360 Checking Debit Card - no ATM fees internationally (almost all bank ATMs in Europe have no usage fee, avoiding the DCC button)
Datapoints:
Bankia ATM in the airport (100 EUR = $112.37 USD, actual rate 1.1237 vs OANDA midpoint 1.1156 on that date, spread was less than 1%)
Santander ATM in the city (140 EUR = $152.99 USD, actual rate 1.0928 vs OANDA midpoint 1.0830)

Barclaycard Arrival+ [World Elite Mastercard]
Chip and Pin: didn't work at any of the ticket kiosks
Chip and Signature: acted as chip and signature 100% of the time (consistent with the card features description)
Datapoint:
Purchase of 200 EUR = $223.72 USD, actual rate 1.1186 vs OANDA midpoint 1.1156

Citi Thank You Premier [Visa Signature]
Although it is only Chip and Signature, I was able to use at Barcelona ticket kiosks with '0000' pin.
Datapoint:
Purchase of 45 EUR = $49.09 USD, actual rate 1.0909 vs OANDA midpoint 1.0830

 

[haserfauld]

This is of interest to me, as I'll be spending 3 weeks in the UK and Paris in September. I have existing Citi checking accounts, and my accounts appear to be semi-glitched. I have a gold debit card, but they're not coded as gold on the statement or in branch. Anytime I call in, the CSRs thank me for being Citigold though. Regardless, I'm fairly confident I'd get fees unless I upgrade.

I've got a pile of no FTF cards (CSP and Prestige would probably be my go-to choices). I don't want to bring a dozen cards, so I'm thinking Prestige, SPG, CSP. The SPG will be no-FTF by then. I've got 3 banks, 3 issuers, and tons of CL there, so I should be fine with that.

More concerning to be is the ATM/debit side. I'm trying to decide if I'm better off converting my accounts to CG (which would require some hefty capital shifting), or just go with a Cap1, Schwab, Fido, or other route. I have a Cap1 360 savings account from the ING days, but no checking. Recommendations? My lean is either CG (have to re-evaluate if that's even feasible in the time frame) or Cap1, but I've never been a fan of Cap1.

 

[smittytabb]

This is of interest to me, as I'll be spending 3 weeks in the UK and Paris in September. I have existing Citi checking accounts, and my accounts appear to be semi-glitched. I have a gold debit card, but they're not coded as gold on the statement or in branch. Anytime I call in, the CSRs thank me for being Citigold though. Regardless, I'm fairly confident I'd get fees unless I upgrade.

I've got a pile of no FTF cards (CSP and Prestige would probably be my go-to choices). I don't want to bring a dozen cards, so I'm thinking Prestige, SPG, CSP. The SPG will be no-FTF by then. I've got 3 banks, 3 issuers, and tons of CL there, so I should be fine with that.

More concerning to be is the ATM/debit side. I'm trying to decide if I'm better off converting my accounts to CG (which would require some hefty capital shifting), or just go with a Cap1, Schwab, Fido, or other route. I have a Cap1 360 savings account from the ING days, but no checking. Recommendations? My lean is either CG (have to re-evaluate if that's even feasible in the time frame) or Cap1, but I've never been a fan of Cap1.

Do you just need to get some occasional cash? When I am abroad I bring some U.S. dollars in cash, have several debit options for the ATM, including Bluebird, Fidelity and my local bank debit card. I also throw in Chime just in case. Depending on my destination I put spend on credit cards or use cash. I've spend extended time abroad many times and I just think you need a lot of options and you'll be fine. I am not sure I would regroup everything for a 3 week trip. I also bring a U.S. check with me. I have gotten in situations where I needed to pay someone that is American and I have done this more times than you might expect for miscellaneous situations and it keeps me from spending my cash.

 

[nrdk]

@haserfauld - FIA debit worked great in the UK and Paris earlier this month. Kept it to ATMs in grocery stores for pocket and street fair money and FIA reimbursed fees which worked out very well, had to do a single airport withdrawal for taxi in Dublin, as it seems very rare to come across a cab that takes card there (especially at 5 AM, a great FYI for the Avios traveller on EI136 is that the airport buses don't run at 5 AM lol)

Table:

 

[haserfauld]

Do you just need to get some occasional cash? When I am abroad I bring some U.S. dollars in cash, have several debit options for the ATM, including Bluebird, Fidelity and my local bank debit card.

Yes, just like to keep between $50-$100 (USD) in local currency while traveling. I'm probably overestimating my need for cash as I recall my last time spend in the UK, which was 5 years ago, living there for 5 months, when I had 1 credit card and 1 debit card. I dealt mostly in cash at the point, which I wouldn't do now. I guess I just prefer being overprepared to underprepared.

 

[kristian]

Regarding ATM fees. USAA reimburses ATM withdrawal fees up to $15 per month.

 

[sriki]

Charles schaub debit card had no atm fees.

 

[smittytabb]

Yes, just like to keep between $50-$100 (USD) in local currency while traveling. I'm probably overestimating my need for cash as I recall my last time spend in the UK, which was 5 years ago, living there for 5 months, when I had 1 credit card and 1 debit card. I dealt mostly in cash at the point, which I wouldn't do now. I guess I just prefer being overprepared to underprepared.

Never hurts to be overprepared, but UK and France are going to be easy destinations to access ATMs. If you have the Arrival + I'd bring that. I think you need several cards of both credit and debit as you just never know. Things happen.

 

[haserfauld]

Never hurts to be overprepared, but UK and France are going to be easy destinations to access ATMs. If you have the Arrival + I'd bring that. I think you need several cards of both credit and debit as you just never know. Things happen.

I do not have the Arrival+, but I do have the Aviator, if it's the issuer that makes a difference. Trying to cut down on the number of cards I'll have on my person, but you make a valid point.

 

[smittytabb]

I do not have the Arrival+, but I do have the Aviator, if it's the issuer that makes a difference. Trying to cut down on the number of cards I'll have on my person, but you make a valid point.

No, if you were getting on a train for example the Arrival is chip and pin and that is nice for unattended kiosks, etc., but you will be fine!! It is so much easier now. I spent six months traveling in Europe before ATMs and it is just so simple now!

 

[Matt]

Charles schaub debit card had no atm fees.

No fees is different from reimbursed fees though. Citi has no fees, but I still get stuck with the local charge.

 

[Fafa123]

No fees is different from reimbursed fees though. Citi has no fees, but I still get stuck with the local charge.

Local fees are reimbursed with a Charles Schwab debit card. My son is using one as he is spending the year abroad and we have not been hit with any fees. For more info see: http://content.schwab.com/m/q310/schwab_bank_high_yield_investor_checking/ELC44427C-02.html

 

[cavil]

This is of interest to me, as I'll be spending 3 weeks in the UK and Paris in September. I have existing Citi checking accounts, and my accounts appear to be semi-glitched. I have a gold debit card, but they're not coded as gold on the statement or in branch. Anytime I call in, the CSRs thank me for being Citigold though. Regardless, I'm fairly confident I'd get fees unless I upgrade.

I've got a pile of no FTF cards (CSP and Prestige would probably be my go-to choices). I don't want to bring a dozen cards, so I'm thinking Prestige, SPG, CSP. The SPG will be no-FTF by then. I've got 3 banks, 3 issuers, and tons of CL there, so I should be fine with that.

More concerning to be is the ATM/debit side. I'm trying to decide if I'm better off converting my accounts to CG (which would require some hefty capital shifting), or just go with a Cap1, Schwab, Fido, or other route. I have a Cap1 360 savings account from the ING days, but no checking. Recommendations? My lean is either CG (have to re-evaluate if that's even feasible in the time frame) or Cap1, but I've never been a fan of Cap1.

Just did 2 weeks in UK and Paris earlier this month. Used the CSP for everything except Hyatt hotel charges (Chase Hyatt for those). I'd consider skipping the SPG. Amex cards are not nearly so widely accepted as in the US. For cash at ATM's I love the Schwab; all ATM fees, worldwide, are reimbursed and I never came across an ATM that didn't accept the card. And the Schwab High Yield checking account lets you deposit money orders with their mobile app. One caveat though, if you apply it is for both a Schwab brokerage account and the High-yield checking account linked to it. This resulted in a hard pull on my credit.

 

[trevix]

charles schwab has no fee's and reimburses fees and has no currency conversion fee either. USAA takes 1%. Here in India I got 60 rs to 1 USD with USAA (at the atm) and 64 rs to 1 USD with schwab.

nerd wallet has a nice writeup
http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/debit-card-foreign-transaction-international-atm-fees/

i don't think you need to travel with anything other than 2 credit-cards. I just take one MC and one Visa. CSP and whatever else has no FTF. Chip and pin is nice for europe. Unfortunately most of the USA cards are still being pushed out chip and sig which is pretty insecure.

I never bring USD. Just pull the local currency at an ATM. Dunno, I also don't spend much when I travel.

 

[nrdk]

No issues with CSP at any of the unattended metro stations in London/Paris or any of the sites with unattended kiosks, brought the WF Propel AmEx card to use since it is chip + pin just in case, however I didn't even bother the entire trip since I had no issues with the CSP

 

[Fafa123]

Of course, the country you are in may effect what type of currency you use. I like points and miles as much as the next gal but sometimes the resulting exchange just isn't worth it (because of hassle or getting a better deal by paying cash). Going to the Bahamas? They take US dollars so it is just easier to use that. Going to Argentina (especially Buenos Aires)? There is a two-tier conversion rate there. The official rate (9 pesos to the dollar when I was there in June) and the "blue rate" that is unofficial but is published in some newspapers (!). It was as high as 13.55 while we were there. Much better deal to exchange US dollars at the blue rate. Never go quite 13.55 but did get 13.3 twice (we never got at less than 10). You just have to exchange at reliable places/people and not follow some guy down the street. We exchanged with our AirBNB landlord, at the store where I bought a leather coat (13.3 but the coat price was pegged to the dollar), and even with the representative for the Iguazu Falls boat tour in our hotel.

 

[Fishing4Deals]

The Aviator card has chip and pin but charges a foreign transaction fee. We are just back from Paris and travelled with Charles Schwab for no fee ATMs, Capital One Venture card for 2 percent cash back and no FTF.

 

[smittytabb]

The Aviator card has chip and pin but charges a foreign transaction fee. We are just back from Paris and travelled with Charles Schwab for no fee ATMs, Capital One Venture card for 2 percent cash back and no FTF.

Arrival + is chip and pin, but most of the other cards with chips issued in the US are chip and signature. Things are changing all the time, but chip and pin cards are still a rarity in the US market. Also it depends on which Aviator card you have. The Red and Silver have no foreign transaction fees.

 

[Mountain Trader]

1. Schwab debit with FIDO FIA backup is all we take for multi month trips to Europe to get ATM cash.

2. CSP if good but per FT thread and other data points, looks like Visa charges may be adding .5% or more to the forex. Compared to using Arrivals, any charge card is costing you 2.2 cents per mike, excluding bonuses. If CSP does have, say, an additional .5 % compared to MC, you're paying 2.7 cents cash per UR point, and 1.35 cents per point when used in 2x restsurant.

Ok for convenience on a short trip. Just be aware of what you're paying and what you're getting.

 

[Matt]

I never bring USD. Just pull the local currency at an ATM. Dunno, I also don't spend much when I travel.

I recommend at least putting a $100 bill in your wallet for emergency purposes... some places have ATMs that shut down after hours (which seems like someone missed the point a little) Japan is an example of that.

 

[smittytabb]

I recommend at least putting a $100 bill in your wallet for emergency purposes... some places have ATMs that shut down after hours (which seems like someone missed the point a little) Japan is an example of that.

Yep, one of my biggest regrets in some places I've traveled has not been bringing enough US cash. It is an important back up strategy. ATMs sometimes don't work (India) have no cash left (Argentina),won't take your card (Brazil), eat your card (Thailand), don't exist (Bhutan) or eat your cash (Chile) and that means you make no assumptions. This won't always happen and may never happen to you. But all of the above have happened to me, so I overplan.

 

[raccah]

Sorry to bump this thread. The BOA Travel Rewards - they say it has a PIN, but I think they mean it is a PIN for ATM in USA - NOT for chip & PIN is that correct? We closed our A+ after those AHOles made me miserable and anyway, BOA at 2.65 beats them hands down. If my guess is correct, I will use the BOA card where I can, and then follow Matt's approach and carry more cash than I normally do.

One last question - OT, europe swarms with pickpocket kids and the such - what approach did u all use there to keep ur wallet safe? TIA

 

[raccah]

Is this the approach that works for you all for thwarting pickpockets!

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/theft-scams/travel-moneybelt

 

[DL172]

A point of note - it's also great to have currency that is accepted in your destination before you leave. I've seen ATMs in Taoyuan, Taiwan and Incheon, Korea 20 people deep. The money changers in seoul can sometimes be even worse. Thailand airport ATMs also tack on $5 surcharges to foreign transactions (most things in Thailand foreigners pay more - really turns me off).

My go to source is buying $100 worth of currency to more exotic destinations (that aren't on the USD) before I leave. That way I don't have to worry about a cab ride. I usually buy my currency at a Citi branch. It takes about a day to arrive. I believe the spread is high at 5%, but it's worth the convenience factor till I get to an ATM in the country.

Anyone else have other advice about obtaining currency in the U.S. prior to embarking on travel overseas?

 

[oopl]

My go to source is buying $100 worth of currency to more exotic destinations (that aren't on the USD) before I leave.

Ditto to this strategy. It helps to have some local cash upon arrival, especially if it's evening. Usually I'll go to a bank later or the next day to withdraw with my Fidelity Debit.

 

[inflightmeal]

Is this the approach that works for you all for thwarting pickpockets!

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/theft-scams/travel-moneybelt

PROTIP: Wear your moneybelt INSIDE your pants.

 

[sungchiahao]

Where do I lookup the credit card exchange rate? If I have a No-ForEx fee credit card, do I truly just pay the market exchange rate?

 

[Matt]

Where do I lookup the credit card exchange rate? If I have a No-ForEx fee credit card, do I truly just pay the market exchange rate?

I believe that visa/MC had their own daily rates rather than a singular market.

 

[Mountain Trader]

XE.com is pretty useful for checking exchange rates. If your card is forex free, the charges coming through should be very close to those found there.

As Matt said, MC and Visa seem to have their own rates. My experience, which is quite a bit on this score, is that MC is just about on the money. However, Visa seems to always be maybe .4% to .5% worse (eg. Not in my favor). There is at least thread one FT to the same point:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1650945-foreign-exchange-rates-discussion-forex-all-cards.html

This is another reason I find Barclays Arrivals Plus such a good card, at least under its original terms. Some (the blogger touts) like Chase Sapphire but if the Visa bump mentioned above is true, using Sapphire means you're paying 2.5 cents hard cash for those Ultimare Reward points, which is nuts to me.

My advice is that if you're going overseas for a week or two, a good forex free MC or Visa will be fine. Longer stays or high dollar charges may justify looking at an apparently cheaper MC.

 

[Beltway Explorers]

For those who carry little to no cash, how do you avoid ending up at a restaurant that is cash only? The credit card logo stickers don't seem to be as consistent as in the U.S. so at least once per trip it seems like we have to pull out the cash. We usually get about $200 and split it, but $100 would be sufficient since we usually end up putting it towards our last couple meals anyway to use it up.

 

[Voyaging Doc]

Sometimes the cash only restaurants are less commercialized/touristy and a better food experience. I absolutely hate carrying cash, but it's unavoidable especially in developing countries, so i just take my no-fee atm card (schwab is my #1) and withdraw about $100-200 cash as well. The experience >> cc points.

 

[30French]

I use my Schwab debit card when abroad. The atm fees never fail to be reimbursed. I even used a sketchy atm in a gentleman's club with a $10 fee once. Reimbursed no problem.

 

[Gabe870]

No fees is different from reimbursed fees though. Citi has no fees, but I still get stuck with the local charge.

Charles Schwab actually has no fees and reimbursed atm fees.
I spent about 2 months in Asia this summer and enjoyed my monthly reimbursements.
They also have amazing customer service, and were able to (internationally) Fedex a replacement card for free.

There is a stated maximum reimbursement, but I regularly exceeded it without any complaints.

 

[aviator8]

Wanted to share some datapoints, and perhaps build out a resource to make us more efficient when traveling.

Basics


No Dynamic Currency Conversion!
If you are asked to charge local currency or USD always elect local currency. I think many people screw this up. If you agree to being charged in USD they calculate the USD at very unfavorable rates.

On this point you may not have a choice. I always ask to be charge in whatever the local currency is. I was just in Aruba, and apparently every business on the island will only charge you in USD if you have a US issued CC. The only way they can charge in local currency is if you have a Maestro card. It was a bit frustrating because even though I used no forex cards I am sure they where not converting to USD at a favorable rate, and I had no desire to be charge in USD.