The Relativity of Money

Matt

Administrator
Staff member


According to Planck, and later Einstein, there is a theory that things may appear relative to the observer. A common example used in this theory is that of time dilation. This concept states that time can appear to move at a different rate depending on either the relative movement between the two observers, or if they are observing from different gravitational masses.

It’s a pretty interesting idea. To take something that we thought was a constant measurement, and then realize that its constant nature is only relative to the person observing it.. I feel that I recently encountered that same notion when it comes to money, and want to explain the process here today.

When is an hour not a hour?


Or when is a dollar no longer a dollar? Without the theory of time dilation this concept doesn’t make sense, because a second is always a second, and a dollar is always a dollar. But there comes a point when the relative value changes. At the last conference I attended I was talking to someone about how I was starting to change my view on collecting Gas Rewards based upon the underlying price of gasoline. I could feel that something was changing, but couldn’t quite grasp the reason why.

Gas rewards are worth up to $2.20 discount per gallon, to a max of 35 gallons per transaction. That’s $77 right there. It is $77 ‘free money’ whether the price is $10 per gallon or $2.20 per gallon. While I’ve always been opportunistic about collecting these rewards, I’d certainly be ‘more inclined’ to go out of my way 5 minutes when gas was $4 per gallon. And since it has dropped I see very little reason to do so. When I explained this to my friend at the conference we both agreed that it was ‘still $77′. So what changed in me?

Interestingly I have spoken to a few other people about it also, and some agree with me that the value has depreciated, whereas some argue it must be a constant. My hypothesis on this is that we are looking at the theory of relativity in relation to cash flow. On a monthly basis, we might go through perhaps 100 gallons of gasoline. When that was at $4 per gallon it was a $400 line item on the budget and enough to ‘pinch’ other things. When it became $220 the pressure was released from the budget and we could continue about our way without the pressure.

That said, I am not sure we actually ever really felt the pinch, but it was there psychologically – it ‘seemed’ to be a lot so we worried about it, and therefore took pleasure in reducing that cost beyond what we might otherwise do. When the pressure was alleviated as gas prices dropped our relative value declined, and pushed it passed the point where we might be worried about reducing the bill.

Is this evolution?


I’ve been thinking a lot about the evolution of wealth. I believe at some stage you must be willing to let go of what you consider ‘good money’ in order to achieve ‘great money’. I’ve done this in the past many times when I have quit jobs at, or just below the peak of the salary curve. One example was when I was about to become Casino Manager on a cruise ship – an absolutely fantastic position to hold… within that reality. Instead, I quit and moved to another country with no job or money, and managed to get something that paid about 10x as much.

When it comes to money, is it possible for you to walk away from $77, or will it always be $77 that could be in your pocket?




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henrygeorge

Level 2 Member
My valuation is $/hr. $77/15 mins is easy money. I max at 11.x gallons though, but even $25/15 mins is worth it. Next time, I want to pump up that efficiency by obtaining min spend and saving OBC and hammer 10k on this deal.
 

Someone

Level 2 Member
I don't think using the retail price of gas to demonstrate the relative value of a dollar is a very apt example, especially in reference to S&S gas points.

Holding most factors constant (e.g. your ability to earn the points, the amount of gas you can fit in your tank, how fast you consume the gas), as long as the real dollar discount you enjoy from the gas points remains constant, your preference for earning and using points should not vary based on the retail price of gas.

I understand you're saying it's more of a psychological thing... I personally feel more excited using my discount and getting a full tank of gas for under $5 than getting that same tank filled for $20+ after the discount.

I can also remember paying 85 cents per gallon when that was the retail price, so maybe personal history has more to do with this phenomenon.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think using the retail price of gas to demonstrate the relative value of a dollar is a very apt example, especially in reference to S&S gas points.

Holding most factors constant (e.g. your ability to earn the points, the amount of gas you can fit in your tank, how fast you consume the gas), as long as the real dollar discount you enjoy from the gas points remains constant, your preference for earning and using points should not vary based on the retail price of gas.

I understand you're saying it's more of a psychological thing... I personally feel more excited using my discount and getting a full tank of gas for under $5 than getting that same tank filled for $20+ after the discount.

I can also remember paying 85 cents per gallon when that was the retail price, so maybe personal history has more to do with this phenomenon.
My hypothesis is cash flow related though. If prices fall below a certain level where current cashflow can accommodate them without concern, that triggers a change in mindset.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
My valuation is $/hr. $77/15 mins is easy money. I max at 11.x gallons though, but even $25/15 mins is worth it. Next time, I want to pump up that efficiency by obtaining min spend and saving OBC and hammer 10k on this deal.
I think part of where I am trying to go with this concept is into the actual calculation for $/hr too. Does it need to be fixed, or can it be variable? At what point in terms of overall inflow/outflow of money will you be happy with working just one hour at $77 and at what point would you be forced to work 20? Would you work 20 if you didn't need to?
 

Haley

I am not a robot
I think the relativity idea is a good one but needs further development. No time to dive in today but a thought. I think the $77 is relative psychologically and tied to cash flow Or perceived cash flow.

OT & TL, but:

There is a very interesting psyc study I ran across in grad school (and I'm sure I could never find now) that talked about how people perceived money at different income levels. The point of the study was that certian beliefs about money contributed greatly to people staying poor. One example that I have always remembered because I'd noticed it in people I knew and wondered about it, was use of off-brand or no-name products. Many poor people (not in poverty, more like lower middle class/working poor) identified no-name/off-brand products with being poor and so they did not buy them, because they did not perceive themselves as "poor" while people with higher income almost all said they would buy off-brand/no name products if the thought the quality was just as good or close to as good as the name brands. There were many other differences in perceptions of cost savings where people with less money were more reluctant to do the cost savings measures and it was really very interesting to see how many wealthy people were very happy to cut costs any way possible. A penny saved is a penny earned and all that.
 

Voyaging Doc

Level 2 Member
I thoroughly enjoy savings from accumulating gas points which is the true motivation factor even though I earn more from 5% CB than the gas points itself - and for me the limit is 20 gallons at 2x accumulation rate. If there were no gas points i would find it much more difficult to spend the extra 10 minutes to drive out of my way and wait patiently as the cs rep rings up my GCs, and then have to hassle myself to get to walmart and mix in with a disrespectful throng of people. I think part of why I value the gas value more despite being significantly less than the 5% CB is that I feel it more as a concrete lost-opportunity if I didn't cash in on the "free gas." It is similar to my frustration with booking a jfk-dub avios redemption that costs a mere 7500 more points than if i booked the bos-dub route just because it falls just past the 3,000 mile distance threshold due to lack of award availibility - really that 7500 points is a drop in the bucket. That jfk-dub redemption is already a pretty damn good redemption.

And then the other psychological factor that always bugs the hell out of me is wondering if my time is better spent doing something productive like working or working on a project that would bear fruits 10-fold then the time i wasted manufactured spending. My earnings could potentially exceed the amount generated by MS, even after taking into account net earnings after tax. But then I might be losing out on the rush I get with MS... It's a never-ending psychological battle within my own head, something that is easily pushed aside by, yet again, wasting valuable time on watching a tv show like House of Cards. These are most certainly first-world problems
 

orensmoneysaver

Level 2 Member
Interesting. I am actually psychologically more interested in the fuel points now because I look at the receipt and see that I only paid 15 cents a gallon.
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
I think part of where I am trying to go with this concept is into the actual calculation for $/hr too. Does it need to be fixed, or can it be variable? At what point in terms of overall inflow/outflow of money will you be happy with working just one hour at $77 and at what point would you be forced to work 20? Would you work 20 if you didn't need to?
Your question is really an existential one: When is enough enough? That's a state of mind, not a computation one can make.
 

Andres

Level 2 Member
Matt, funny you make a post about this. I saw a similar phenomenon in a TV show recently where they show that money is relative. They basically made an experiment in which they asked people if they would drive 5 miles to another store to buy a particular item based on a savings of $77, for example. What they found out is that when the item the were buying was cheap, they preferred to go to the other store. But when the item was really expensive, $77 more wouldn't be worth the drive, even though it was the same amount of money! So I guess our brains process this information based on a percent savings. Not exactly logical, but most decisions aren't ;)

The funny thing is that your behavior is the opposite of what that experiment shows. You are willing to save the $77 when the item is expensive, not when it is cheap. So I guess the brain is more complex than the above experiment. Me personally, I will always go for the cheaper gas no matter what the price of gas is (assuming I don't have anything better to do).
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Your question is really an existential one: When is enough enough? That's a state of mind, not a computation one can make.
Perhaps.. but I think there may be a number in there somewhere. Clearly $1000 in an IRA is not enough, but if you spend $40000 a year then just as clearly, $100M is 'enough' I think that's the state of mind side of things.. the narrowing of that down to a computation is something that is achievable (within parameters of presumed success).

Though as an aside, personally I am not at goal for retirement, I think the shift in mindset occurred because the changing gas prices put me more comfortably on target for overall goals.
 
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Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Matt, funny you make a post about this. I saw a similar phenomenon in a TV show recently where they show that money is relative. They basically made an experiment in which they asked people if they would drive 5 miles to another store to buy a particular item based on a savings of $77, for example. What they found out is that when the item the were buying was cheap, they preferred to go to the other store. But when the item was really expensive, $77 more wouldn't be worth the drive, even though it was the same amount of money! So I guess our brains process this information based on a percent savings. Not exactly logical, but most decisions aren't ;)

The funny thing is that your behavior is the opposite of what that experiment shows. You are willing to save the $77 when the item is expensive, not when it is cheap. So I guess the brain is more complex than the above experiment. Me personally, I will always go for the cheaper gas no matter what the price of gas is (assuming I don't have anything better to do).
That's likely very common. I may do the same. My concept here is hopefully useful in terms of deciding what the hourly rate might be and bigger picture items, such as when you can quit your job, when you can retire, etc. It still needs some expanding upon to get there though.
 

mangoceviche

Level 2 Member
Hi,
This is slightly off topic, but which rewards program offers up to $2.2 off per gallon? All that I'm aware off cap at $1 per gallon. Great post by the way.
 

Haley

I am not a robot
Slightly off topic but an ok fare just popped up on my feed and I said, "I kind of understand why some people just switch to MS for money and just pay cash for flights. There are always pretty good fares out there if you know how to find them."

My 17 year old daughter replied "what's cash?"

:rolleyes: I think she thought it was a rewards program she hadn't heard of yet. And you know what, it is!
 

Haley

I am not a robot
Hi,
This is slightly off topic, but which rewards program offers up to $2.2 off per gallon? All that I'm aware off cap at $1 per gallon. Great post by the way.
Fuel Rewards Network which is for Shell
You can sign up online (do we have a conga?) and link your MasterCards to earn points (right not I get 5¢/$100 at home improvement stores) I'm going to Lowes to buy a million dollars worth of landscaping supplies (ok, might be slightly less than a million) and some gift cards with my AmEx's ($10/$50 sync offer). So if I use up all my sync offers the rest will go on a Mastercard.

Couldn't find a conga so I made one: https://saverocity.com/forum/threads/fuel-rewards-network-conga.152495/

There are also gas points through another program (I think it is another program) that I get from buying gift cards at a Safeway family grocery store, these offers are regional (we never see 4x, just 3x or 2x around here). Same deal x¢ off per $100.
 
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