Early High-Level Planning - Asia

[knick1959]

Can you book your HKG leg and then add REP in 2 days?

Great suggestion, and I wondered that myself. I'll google for AS change fees on Award flights and see how that works. If you can cancel the whole ticket up to 3 months out, I can't imagine too much drama for adding a flight. Thanks.

UPDATE: Again, google makes it easy. No fees for changes and it's up to 2 months out with no fees. Tried to paste in as an image and I couldn't get it to work. I'd think it was me, but a new user also has a "no img" icon showing. Did search get fixed but image upload break?

Anyway, apparently no fee for the change.

 

[knick1959]

Bad day. Well, I don't have a flight out yet. I called Alaska, twice, and was told by both CSR's that their schedule only goes to 12/22/2018. That's the normal 330 day schedule. I explained that "I had read" difference and they still said the couldn't do it. Do I need to call elsewhere or ask for a international awards? Is there a difference? I'll try again shortly.

Update: Called a third time. I explained what I wanted to do differently, starting with the details. I was told that if the flight doesn't show on their website (which stops as described above) then it can't be booked over the phone. Looks like I am waiting another couple of weeks. I'm going to go comment on TPG's website, even if the post is not too current.

Final Update: It's called out in the comments that this might have been true years ago but isn't now. I've added my own comment, but apparently the info will remain and trap other google searchers into chasing unicorns.

 

[italdesign]

Bummer, but yay for being able to use AA points.

 

[knick1959]

Bummer, but yay for being able to use AA points.

Yes! Well, there was some anxiety to endure between yesterday and today. The ability to book the date I needed appeared on the AA calendar a day before I expected (yesterday ... AS showed my date for JAN 2019 just today). Whatever the case, the flight that had 5 seats available last time I looked had nothing left. Crap. I could change to leaving on the next day, but that would just not make be happy.

I did manage to snag 2 of the 3 J seats still listed out of JFK; there were some other options but JFK had the closest leaving time to my original ORD pick although slightly longer. Well, I called this morning around 8-ish and it was easy to put in the reservation request with AA. The CSR was quick to remind me that CX had to actually approve the booking and I needed to wait to make sure I got a confirmation.

That just showed up in my inbox. I have 2 seats in J to HKG for 140k AA miles and, surprisingly, the standard $5.60 each in fees. I still have 2 flight options to book in order to get home, one at 2 weeks out (which more and more feels like the probably final option) and one at 4. Then to fill in all of the middle things starting with Hong Kong and Macau.

I'll ask. As this is my next planning challenge. And yes, I'm still trying to pack too much into this, but I want to consider all options. My original plan was to spend a couple of days in Siem Reap then fly REP->LPQ (Luang Prabang). But there seems to be 2 UNESCO sites close to REP that look attainable if only for quick visits: Preah Vihear and Wat Ph(o)u in Laos. Anyone have any insight into tours and transport to and between these places? It's possible I can stop (fly) into Paske for the latter site but timing might be too tight. I see operators offering day trips REP to the first site, but it would make for a long, full day.

 

[italdesign]

Whatever you do, Dont be in HK during Chinese New year. Most shops are closed or close early. Had to eat at McDonald's the other night (a first in all my travels). Imagine same for China. 2019 dates are Feb 5-7.

 

[knick1959]

Whatever you do, Dont be in HK during Chinese New year. Most shops are closed or close early. Had to eat at McDonald's the other night (a first in all my travels). Imagine same for China. 2019 dates are Feb 5-7.

Thanks for the reply. My extended plan goes out to 2/5 (flight home would be that day) but we would be in BKK. Even if Thailand is also affected by this holiday, we'd be at the airport that day.

Per my own thinking above, I've added a day trip to Preah Vihear as a possibility (out of Siem Reap) but dropped the idea of stopping in Pakse. We'll shoot for that on another trip to the area; it would have cut too much time out of other places. That area does have some interesting attractions tho!

 

[knick1959]

Update - Hopefully some of you are still with me as I also have a couple of questions.

I've got a great deal of the 2+ week option booked. I still have the flight home for the 4 week option to book but that now looks easy. I'm working hard against this (looking for a new job) but the reality is I don't have it that bad here and it's 50/50 as far as which option wins.

I still have 2 flights to book and these are fairly easy as paid tickets. REP->LPQ and LPQ->HAN. These are around $130-150 for each flight/person. I can't seem to find an angle to search for rewards here. Anyone? These cash options are on Vietnam and Lao Air. I will happily pay for these, but that doesn't mean I have to do it without a fight!

For the 4 week option I need HAN->DAD and then DAD->BKK. Vietnam Air again for the first flight, but the second is offered by Thai Airways. Reading up, it looks like folks have booked this airline with United miles (perhaps a thing of the past?). When I search United for ANY of the 4 flights above, all I get is a non-stop spinner with a blank page behind it. Last night and today, different locations. I just killed the 20 minute spinner in another browser window.

Are United miles usable in any of these scenarios? Any other angle using common miles/points currency?

As it stands now, this trip looks way too exciting. I'm visiting some great locations and staying at some nice places as well. Still scheming for Danang (Need More IHG Points!) if that should happen. In short, I've got HKG (Macau is still on as a day trip, despite some advice to save it for latter ), Siem Reap/Angkor, Luang Prabang and Hanoi. If I get the 4 weeks, Another day or 2 in Hanoi, then to Danang then off to Bangkok and area with a nice clump of days for that.

Oh, and while I'm babbling, I'll mention that I booked to HKG and home from there using AA miles instead of AS. And I'll book the 4 week option flight home via AA also. I'm willing to spend the $175 to cancel one of the AA award flights home to save the AS miles. On an entirely different topic, I'm scheme for a Sept trip to Scotland with a 2-3 day stop over in Reykjavik. AS miles work well here and it feels good to reduce my large pool of AA miles.

Thanks in advance.

 

[italdesign]

I still have 2 flights to book and these are fairly easy as paid tickets. REP->LPQ and LPQ->HAN. These are around $130-150 for each flight/person. I can't seem to find an angle to search for rewards here. Anyone? These cash options are on Vietnam and Lao Air. I will happily pay for these, but that doesn't mean I have to do it without a fight!

In some cases you might save some money if you're willing to route thru KUL via AirAsia and the alike ULCCs. JAL miles used to be a great play for this region with Bangkok Airways, but no longer.

For the 4 week option I need HAN->DAD and then DAD->BKK. Vietnam Air again for the first flight, but the second is offered by Thai Airways. Reading up, it looks like folks have booked this airline with United miles (perhaps a thing of the past?). When I search United for ANY of the 4 flights above, all I get is a non-stop spinner with a blank page behind it. Last night and today, different locations. I just killed the 20 minute spinner in another browser window.

The sweet spot for UA miles is 8k for intra-Region, <800mi, Nonstop flights outside of North America. You should definitely qualify. Keep trying or call.

 

[El Ingeniero]

Whatever you do, Dont be in HK during Chinese New year. Most shops are closed or close early. Had to eat at McDonald's the other night (a first in all my travels). Imagine same for China. 2019 dates are Feb 5-7.

Actually, I was in China once for Spring Festival.

The night of, you might have fewer dining options. But afterwards, I think its a special time to be on the mainland. Everyone comes home to be with family.

As I was leaving my wife's parent's apartment and got onto the street, there was this old guy who jumped off a 3 wheeled bike, set out a 18" wide wheel of firecrackers the size of my finger, and a couple boxes of roman candles about 12"x12"x16", lit the fuses, and then hopped on his bike and rode down to the next intersection do do it all over again. The fireworks didn't subside until 2 or 3 in the morning.

We went to Beijing a couple days later and you could buy these boxes of roman candles everywhere. Peaple were lighting them off in the middle of intersections and cards were driving around them as they were going off. Dark side was some idiot was bouncing fireworks off a residential tower, and apparently one broke a window and started a fire about 3/4s of the way up, which eventually engulfed 8 or 10 floors.

 

[El Ingeniero]

I still have 2 flights to book and these are fairly easy as paid tickets. REP->LPQ and LPQ->HAN. These are around $130-150 for each flight/person. I can't seem to find an angle to search for rewards here. Anyone? These cash options are on Vietnam and Lao Air. I will happily pay for these, but that doesn't mean I have to do it without a fight!

For the 4 week option I need HAN->DAD and then DAD->BKK. Vietnam Air again for the first flight, but the second is offered by Thai Airways. Reading up, it looks like folks have booked this airline with United miles (perhaps a thing of the past?). When I search United for ANY of the 4 flights above, all I get is a non-stop spinner with a blank page behind it. Last night and today, different locations. I just killed the 20 minute spinner in another browser window.

I got the never-ending spinner too.

 

[SanDiego1K]

For the 4 week option I need HAN->DAD and then DAD->BKK. Vietnam Air again for the first flight,

Vietnam Airlines is a SkyTeam member, thus a partner of Delta. I checked an arbitrary week and found HAN-DAD for 12,500 Delta points. DAD-BKK is 22,500 miles +$27.80 in coach and has an enroute stop.

 

[knick1959]

Vietnam Airlines is a SkyTeam member, thus a partner of Delta. I checked an arbitrary week and found HAN-DAD for 12,500 Delta points. DAD-BKK is 22,500 miles +$27.80 in coach and has an enroute stop.

Thanks for checking! I have no Delta miles but have MR and wouldn't mind getting a Amex Delta card (have never had one).

Funny thing is that I noticed the Delta affiliation (SkyTeam) on the airline's site. When I spot-checked one flight, I thought I saw a horrendous amount of miles required. Perhaps it was the day or a specific flight. These are much more reasonable ... but I'll have to compare vs cash. I have plenty of time and since I have slowed down on CC acquisitions, could afford a new card or 2. Thanks again.

PS - I also saw Korean Air on both airlines' partner lists. Not sure what to expect, but I'll check that out, too.

PSS - I was mistaken on the Delta miles. I forgot we took a paid positioning flight with them last year - I've got 895 miles (and my wife must also)! Almost there!!

 

[Maverick17]

If you want to use miles inside Vietnam, you can, but it's not a great value straight up. HAN-DAD can be had for 30 bucks or thereabouts. Vietnam Airlines and VietJet are the ones I fly, I try to avoid Jetstar. VietJet has the LCC vibe and will charge for bags etc. Flights to/from Laos and Cambodia are a bit better for miles value, I would think, since those flights are more expensive. So you might look at the LPQ-HAN flight for any DL miles. I haven't really found any other Skyteam member great for VN flights, but I haven't looked a lot. Air France is fairly easy but they have high taxes. Korean did not seem reasonable either. The other alliance members I don't know much about in terms of their rewards programs.

I don't see TG flying into DAD at all. I could be wrong, but the only ones I see are some TG flights that are codeshares being operated by Bangkok Airways. Maybe that is why you're not pulling them up on United. I see your options as AirAsia and Bangkok Airways. I'd choose the latter, simply for the ability to connect to the airport link and the BTS via BKK rather than through the old DMK airport and dealing with traffic.

 

[knick1959]

If you want to use miles inside Vietnam, you can, but it's not a great value straight up

The Delta award flights were interesting ... I found possibilities on each of my dates (one date was still too far out, but a couple of days earlier had plenty). But as you say, none are really bargains. I am looking for a bargain . The 12.5k award from HAN to DAD is a possibility; the flight I saw was $159, so 12.5k is at least > 1 cpp. Still not stellar. Not afraid to pay, but with 3-4 $300 flights (2 ppl) and several pay hotels near airports, always looking to cut some corners.

I saw some really cheap airlines. My mind instantly disqualified them ... will look at these harder and I'll keep your recommendations in mind when I browse through all of the possibilities again.

Let me ask you this. I see spectacular things in and around Hanoi (historic structures and landscapes). Ditto for Danang (more the area rather than the city itself). I crossed off the idea of going farther south in Vietnam ... even crossed off Phu Quoc based on some chit chat here. Am I missing something spectacular? In your opinion (and anyone else's).

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[italdesign]

Please do not miss Sa Pa to the north of Hanoi. Best rice terraces and hill tribe market I've seen.





My friend went further into the mountains and says it's the best scenery she's ever seen.

 

[Maverick17]

Sapa can be great, but iirc OP is going in winter, and it can be hit or miss. Fog/low clouds and rain can make it quite different than summer visits.

Vietnam in my mind can be broken into several parts for tourists. The north has more of the cultural history. Pagodas, ancient temples, influence from Chinese dynasties. It also has some nature in Sapa and the mountains, which are a full day further north, and Ha Long bay and Ninh Binh closer to Hanoi.

The central area has mostly nature mixed with a small amount of history. The huge caves go along with many jungle areas, and then there are the beaches along the coast. The history is the ancient capital of Hue and the somewhat touristy-but-lovely Hoi An and surrounds (riding bikes through the rice fields and towards the beach can be great if you're active). There is the conflict history for those few who might want that. There is also some Cham history in the central area, but not especially well preserved that I'm aware of. More like scattered ruins here and there. (The Cham people are not well known outside of Vietnam, but they were the enemies of, and eventually sacked, Angkor Wat and the people in the Siem Reap area, and they were some of the first Muslims in SE Asia as I am told.)

The south is all about food and delta life. There is culture if you like to see people and observe and talk with them, but there is not much in the way of buildings and monuments and temples etc. You can visit floating markets, eat delicious food in tiny alleys, and take boat tours through the jungle. There are a few beaches, but they are generally over-burdened and dirty, and not as scenic as some of the top beach destinations in the world. I would definitely not come to Vietnam for the beaches, but if you're nearby and you like beach vacations, they are ok. I would say for all of Vietnam's beaches, Hawaii and the Caribbean outshine almost always. Partly geography (the flow from the Mekong, the dropoffs to the South China Sea), and partly due to refuse. It's just not in the culture yet to take care of their environment.

Just to be clear, I'm not Vietnamese at all. I've lived here for a few years now, but I'm from the US. So I could easily have some of this wrong and it's just my opinions from an outsider point of view.

 

[knick1959]

Update. And thanks again to all of you. This trip has come together nicely with all of the options and ideas offered here.

I've got most of this trip booked ... need to buy a couple of short Asian flights with cash and a couple of easy airport hotels for overnights. While I am still holding on to TWO flights home from HKG, I've pretty much settled on leaving my work situation as is ... well, I've poked around at various alternate opportunities and couldn't find a love connection. So, I'm at 85% certainty I'll take the longer trip plan. This may be even higher now after yesterday booking a flight for a trip after this one.

Except the longer trip plan got shortened a bit. My wife was not comfortable spending a full 28 days on the road and away from home. So we compromised down to 23 days. It will still be somewhat fast moving but should provide a good taste of many places. Days in parenthesis: HKG(3), REP(~4), Luang Prabang(~3), Hanoi(4) and finally Danang(~3). Not counting full transit days. I could stand for more time in the Danang area (Hoi An, Hue, Sons, beaches) but will make due with what I have. We'll be staying at a nice set of hotels including the IC Hong Kong and IC Danang. What got cut? Any hope of making it to Thailand. That's been added back to the rough future plans as a ~2 week trip in Jan 2020.

The shorter version of this ended after 3 days in Hanoi. The important part of the entire trip started out as REP, but I'm now excited about each stop an the things to experience at each.

 

[knick1959]

I've got most of this trip booked ... need to buy a couple of short Asian flights with cash and a couple of easy airport hotels for overnights. While I am still holding on to TWO flights home from HKG ...

I officially canceled the earlier of the 2 flights home 2 days ago, now committed fully to the longer version of the trip.

Calling AA to cancel was easy and I was in for a couple of pleasant surprises. First, I had CC in hand to pay the $175 fee for canceling, and the CSR explained this early on and I said I was aware of it. After a brief few minutes on hold, she said it canceled without a fee! Even better, which makes sense in hindsight but I didn't plan ahead, the fees charged when booking the flight would be refunded - $175+change! I haven't seen the refund for the original fees yet, but I am expecting it.

I told the CSR that I wasn't going to argue, but why no fee for canceling? She mentioned a couple of changes had been made to the itinerary since I had booked it and that caused the fees to be waived. I remember the HAN->HKG positioning flight (included on this ticket) had changed times, perhaps even twice. The time changes were insignificant to me, until now!!

I now do remember reading that booking early and canceling as late as possible can increase the chance of a change, which can allow a cancel with no fee. I just had forgotten about the minor changes and didn't expect this. AND, I needed the 140k AA miles for another trip. It all worked out in my favor!

 

[knick1959]

Vietnam Airlines is a SkyTeam member, thus a partner of Delta. I checked an arbitrary week and found HAN-DAD for 12,500 Delta points. DAD-BKK is 22,500 miles +$27.80 in coach and has an enroute stop.

Just wanted to say that I did take advantage of the 12.5k Delta miles to book HAN->DAD. Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention. I no longer need the DAD->BKG flight, but getting the Delta flight was handy. Not a massive coup vs cash price, but good enough value that I am happy. A couple of remaining flights will be booked with cash. Thanks again!

 

[knick1959]

Looking to book my positioning flight on return home, DAD->HKG. I've watched forever for an award to be offered: BA/AA/UA/AS, Delta and Aeroplan. Delta had a very unattractive one. Cash prices were somewhat cheap but long-winded 1 stops. One Cathay Dragon flight would be ideal except it is very expensive cash-wise.

So I signed up for AsiaMiles(*) and booked a pair of waitlisted seats in economy. I had no miles (but was ready to transfer in from MR) and they collected no money up front. If they find me 2 tickets I will owe 20k + $75 fees. This for a short non-stop that leaves many hours for us in HKG before we leave the next day.

Has anybody been waitlisted for an AsiaMiles award where you finally landed tickets? I suppose I'll give it a few months before I bite on an alternative.

(*) When I first heard about the CX credit card and more importantly, read about the usefulness of CX miles, I went to sign up. I ASSUMED this required joining the Marco Polo club @$100/year so I passed. Today I see that the MP club goes well beyond simply joining the free AsiaMiles program. So I'm signed up now and considering the CX credit card ... not immediately, but it has potential.

 

[HariOm]

Has anybody been waitlisted for an AsiaMiles award where you finally landed tickets?

Yes. We've had CX waitlists clear at T-23 days, T-30-35 days, and T-90 days. (Where T is the travel date.) On my most recent experience a few months ago, the waitlist had cleared and I hadn't received any text or email notification, so the takeaway for me was to periodically check directly at the CX website, not just wait for notification.

There's a whole FT thread about how CX waitlist works, and the participants are very helpful:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-marco-polo-club/1581009-how-exactly-does-cx-waitlist-work-awards-49.html

If you use ExpertFlyer, you can check the loads on your travel date and maybe get a rough idea of whether or not the waitlist will clear. The FT thread explains what levels of what fare classes need to be showing in order for there to be a chance of getting an award.

 

[knick1959]

Yes. We've had CX waitlists clear at T-23 days, T-30-35 days, and T-90 days. (Where T is the travel date.) On my most recent experience a few months ago, the waitlist had cleared and I hadn't received any text or email notification, so the takeaway for me was to periodically check directly at the CX website, not just wait for notification.

I was both texted and emailed today saying my flight-in-waiting is now available. Yes!! Waiting for the AMEX transfer to complete and I should be golden. The CX web page wasn't very helpful as I tried to confirm the cost + fees, but I'll go by my notes (what I wait listed the seats at). Perhaps it was the fact that I had 0 miles in my account. Hopefully the transfer doesn't take too long, but the email and web page say I have until mid-Jan .

I've been checking every Saturday using google calendar to remind me, BTW. Per your suggestion. In fact, I was away and didn't check until late Sunday eve this week. Nadda, but then the pings today. So, my wait cleared T-180 or thereabout.

Update: Fully booked. My AMEX transfer appeared at about 8AM this morning, about a 12 hour wait. No biggie. I did make one mistake. When I waitlisted these flights I noted I needed 20k + $75 in fees. I could not confirm this via the CX web pages with 0 miles in my account, so I transferred 20k. This morning I could navigate all the way to the payment page where I owed 15k + ~$82. So I have a left-over 5k sitting in my CX account and no way to use it (or transfer it back). That's ok ... now I have an excuse to read up on the CX card and other angles for using their miles. Maybe I just need more CX miles!

 

[Maverick17]

The Asia Miles devaluation a few weeks ago has played havoc with CX availability. However, one advantage is that shorter flights are now fewer miles. So it is possible (I would say 'likely' if my memory was better nowadays) that DAD-HKG is lower than when you waitlisted it and your notes were correct.

 

[HariOm]

Update: Fully booked.

Glad to hear it. Well done.

 

[HariOm]

The Asia Miles devaluation a few weeks ago has played havoc with CX availability.

Got any detail on that? I haven't been looking for tickets so haven't noticed.

 

[knick1959]

Got any detail on that? I haven't been looking for tickets so haven't noticed.

Only because I just saw this as a reference on DoC, and this new article claims the issues have been resolved, or at least improved, I'll provide this link:

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/its-back-cathay-pacifics-business-class-award-again-bookable-with-partners-miles/

 

[Maverick17]

Got any detail on that? I haven't been looking for tickets so haven't noticed.

I don't do many searches myself yet, but have been following the FT threads on CX closely the last year with an eye on a few things. According to the experts in that area, the aftermath of the changes has seen very little to no availability on many popular routes. That has been both with AsiaMiles and with partner miles. Then some routes would suddenly have seats at end of schedule, some would have a few last minute. Some would appear to have married segment issues, i.e. adding TPE to the end of many routes, instead of stopping in HKG, would open stuff up. But for example SIN-HKG and HKG-CTS as of recently still showed practically 0 seats for the whole schedule - in Y no less.

At this point, it's still a bit confusing. Nobody seems sure if CX is trying to squeeze out the huge Alaska arbitrage (which of course HK-ers know about and don't approve of) and other partner award values, or if it's an IT charlie foxtrot (apparently CX it is known to have pretty bad IT). At first it was hope for the latter, then as time goes on you'd assume maybe the former. Still nobody is certain. Some partner availability is back on, but AsiaMiles availability is still very very low, so the theory on limiting partner awards also doesn't make a ton of sense at this point.

Edit: I'm talking about Y, J and F, but note CX now has multiple tiers of awards, like many US airlines do. So on AsiaMiles redemptions, you can find much more availability if you're willing to pay "tailored" and some availability with "choice", but for the "standard" awards it is lacking as per the comments above. Standard awards are what should map to partner space, but also as mentioned not sure if they will restrict this or not more than in the past.

 

[HariOm]

I don't do many searches myself yet, but have been following the FT threads on CX closely the last year with an eye on a few things.

Thanks for that. Appreciate the details.

 

[knick1959]

Hey Gang,

Just a quick note ... I was able to make use of all of the information provided here and plan what ended up being a hugely successful 23 days trip. We visited Hong Kong, Siem Reap, Luang Prabang, Hanoi and Danang (and important areas around each). It was a wonderful trip full of great experiences. I'm working on a personal trip report ... only have a couple of days left to add pictures to. Should be done this weekend. It was wonderful, and even better, my wife thought so too!

The only distraction was, as @italdesign mentioned way up-thread, the smog/overcast skies we experienced. It was dingy our entire 3 days in HKG but also hampered our Halong Bay experience. Trang An was much better but still suffered from reduced visibility.

The information and suggestions you guys offered went a long way towards making this a success. It started with the AA award tickets in J on Cathay Pacific and included suggestions about the areas we ended up visiting. Thank all of you so very much.

One other minor note. We spent 3 awesome nights at the InterContental Danang. What a jaw dropping property and luxury experience and at only 50k IHG points a night. I thought this was a sweet spot to share. However, while checking in, the CSR made a comment about us staying on points then added "that won't be as easy anymore" or some-such. I see the points requirement per night has been changed to 70k. Well, I get it ... too bad. It's much less of a bargain now. Great place, though. Expensive restaurants and a somewhat isolated location if you aren't doing day excursions.

Thanks again!