Does isolating investments from savings make any conceptual sense?

There's an apocryphal story about a young Bob Dylan, who was visited by his friend Allen Ginsberg. Dylan asked if he could borrow some money to pay the rent, and Ginsberg asked why he needed to borrow money when he had a jar full of it on the counter. Dylan is supposed to have told him, "that's the dope jar, not the rent jar. The rent jar's empty."

This is supposed to be a story about the fallacy of designating accounts for specific purposes; Dylan's problem is that his income doesn't meet his expenses, so he needs to borrow to make up the difference. It doesn't make any difference whether part of his income is "designated" for rent, utilities, or dope.

With that in mind, the near-universal advice of economists and investment advisors alike is to use a model of asset management, in which the only inputs are age, expected retirement date, and risk tolerance.

The key to this model is that given a person of a given age and expected retirement date, the asset allocation will depend exclusively on their risk tolerance: a person with low risk tolerance will need to invest more, in safer assets, and a person with high risk tolerance will need to invest less, in riskier assets, while bearing the corresponding risk that they'll need to live on less in retirement.

While this principle makes mathematical sense, it does so only as a definitional matter: if assets pay higher returns as compensation for more risk, over the long term they'll return more than less-risky assets, although those returns will be more volatile.

Here are some conceptual issues I have with this model which are rarely, if ever, discussed.

What role do the different assets play in your asset allocation?

When I wrote about Future Advisor on my blog, I explained that they cannot do what they claim to do since they do not include liquid, FDIC-insured, high-interest accounts in their portfolio assessments.

In my case, they suggested allocating my cash savings, earning a little over 5% APY in a liquid savings account, to an array of bond funds with the goal of earning an average of 5% APY — but which would be marked to market if at any time I needed to liquidate them.

The fact that my high-interest, FDIC-insured accounts are liquid allows them to play two roles: serve as a floor on returns, as they would over the very long term if invested in bond funds, but also serve as an emergency fund if I have a sudden need for cash. Even if they theoretically play the first role roughly as well as the same money invested in bond funds, they serve the second role much better, since I am guaranteed to receive back the face value of my savings balance, unlike a bond fund subject to market volatility when sold.

In other words, an asset allocation between stocks and bonds, optimized for a far-off retirement, is extremely unlikely to provide the anticipated returns if unexpected withdrawals are ever necessary. The common solution of holding a separate emergency fund in cash drags down returns by decreasing exposure to equities as a percentage of the entire portfolio. In other words, any given "correctly" risk-weighted asset allocation pre-emergency-fund becomes too risk-averse once you add thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of cash to it.

The conceit of the "emergency fund" is that having one, and using it to cover unexpected expenses, will keep you from having to mark your other investments to market when selling them, and allow you to maintain your expected returns over the long term. But remember, your expected returns are in fact being dragged down over time by your insistence on maintaining your emergency fund as a separate pot of money from your "investments."

How do withdrawals affect your asset allocation?

Let's say your roboadvisor of choice suggests an asset allocation of 33% domestic equities, 37% foreign equities, 12% real estate and 15% bonds, and you need to make a withdrawal from your account.

There are three ways you could make the withdrawal: you could sell your winners; you could sell your losers; or you could sell a cross-section of your account in order to maintain the same overall asset allocation.

But since your asset allocation is a mechanical product of your age, anticipated retirement date, and risk tolerance, whichever one you choose will cause the roboadvisor to reallocate your assets so they have the same overall allocation.

But buying and selling stocks and bonds out of necessity, which were purchased in anticipation of a long investment horizon, is almost guaranteed to sabotage your long-term returns!

Replacing bonds with funds in FDIC-insured, liquid accounts allows you to spend those funds if necessary without affecting the upside offered by your equities and without having to sell your bonds at market prices. When the exigency passes, you can build your balances back up, restoring the original asset allocation and risk profile, all without being subject to the vagaries of selling your holdings at the market's price.

What role do taxes play?

The obvious response to all the foregoing seems to me to be something like this: "using my tax-advantaged accounts as an emergency fund makes sense because even if I experience lower returns and more volatility than I would using taxable savings accounts, I'll save so much money avoiding capital gains taxes on my investments that I'm likely to come out ahead."

For an accountholder in the 35% tax bracket, a 5% APY account will return just 3.25% (or less after state taxes are considered). Suddenly we're talking about returns significantly lower than our promised 5% return, which makes Future Advisor's 5% long-term return on the bond component of a portfolio look newly appealing.

But if taxable accounts are used to offset bonds in the tax-advantaged portfolio, allowing a greater allocation to equities, there should also be a corresponding increase in tax-advantaged returns.

In other words, replacing tax-advantaged bonds with taxable high-interest accounts has two advantages: increasing the returns in tax-advantaged accounts and minimizing the risk of a fire-sale of more volatile assets, but just one disadvantage: the taxes owed on the interest your accounts earn each year.

But feel free to avoid taxes

Of course, alternatively you can simply avoid taxes by generating interest on your cash savings through backdoor tax-advantaged methods: fund accounts with cashback credit cards, fund Kiva loans, or just MS and designate the proceeds as your emergency fund. Since cash back earned on credit card spend isn't currently taxed as earned income or interest income, you'll be able to achieve the same 5%+ annualized return without owing a cent in taxes (under current IRS guidance).
 

Franklin's Dad

Level 2 Member
What are your thoughts on applying this strategy to shorter-term investing rather than/in addition to retirement planning? Now that my wife has (finally) earned her Master's and has started a job, we are ready to invest most our somewhat meager bankroll (right now we are 100% liquid).

If we are looking to buy a house in, say, the 5-7 year range, but not sooner than that and potentially later than that, wouldn't it make more sense to apply this strategy by going much more equity heavy in our mutual funds and keeping liquid cash in 5% APY savings? Given that the earnings on these savings accounts are always capped, I would think this strategy is even more applicable to shorter term investing. Thoughts?
 
What are your thoughts on applying this strategy to shorter-term investing rather than/in addition to retirement planning? Now that my wife has (finally) earned her Master's and has started a job, we are ready to invest most our somewhat meager bankroll (right now we are 100% liquid).

If we are looking to buy a house in, say, the 5-7 year range, but not sooner than that and potentially later than that, wouldn't it make more sense to apply this strategy by going much more equity heavy in our mutual funds and keeping liquid cash in 5% APY savings? Given that the earnings on these savings accounts are always capped, I would think this strategy is even more applicable to shorter term investing. Thoughts?
Great question. Savings is often treated as a synonym for "saving for retirement," which is how I framed this post, but there are in fact lots of different expenses over the lifecycle worth saving money for, and cash that's not earning any interest is always the worst way of saving for any of them. So the first thing you need to decide to do is get your savings out of your checking account and working for you, somehow. Here are a couple things to think about:

Since you're married, you get to play in 2-player mode: you can EACH open high-interest liquid accounts (Mango, Consumers CU, LMCU) and double the amount you're able to earn 5%+ APY on. That's a big deal, and where I would start saving for the house. Remember: you actually need the money to exist in 5-7+ years when you walk into the bank.

Second, you can withdraw up to $10,000 from a Roth IRA to make a first-time home purchase. Your financial advisor will tell you not to do this, but I'm not your financial advisor. The problem is that if your Roth is invested in a single fund (mine is in a Vanguard target retirement date mutual fund) then you can't pick winners and losers to sell. That means if you want to do this, then in addition to your "retirement" Roth you could have a separate pot of money (it can be in the same account or you can open another Roth with a different or the same custodian) divided into asset classes that will perform differently than each other. This is harder than it used to be since both bonds and stocks were hammered in the financial crisis, but theoretically you could buy something like $10,000 in VTI (total stock market) and $10,000 in VBMFX (total bond market) and in 5-7+ years sell $10,000 of the one that performed the best, withdraw the money as a qualified distribution and use it to purchase your first home. Then wait for the other to recover and roll it into your "retirement" Roth fund. You'll lose some investment efficiency, which isn't great, but pay for part of your house with tax-free capital gains, which is nice. I wouldn't do this, but it's not as bad an idea as people make it out to be.

Third, you cannot gamble with funds you cannot afford to lose. You wrote "wouldn't it make more sense to apply this strategy by going much more equity heavy in our mutual funds" and the answer is that no, it would not make "more" sense, it would make "no" sense, unless you know where the market is going to be in exactly 7 years (in which case we need to talk). What you can do is save the money you actually need to buy the house in high-interest, FDIC-insured investments and then gamble with the additional money by "going much more equity heavy," and simply saying "if the equities perform well over the next 5-7+ years, we'll sell them and take out a smaller mortgage, and if the equities perform poorly, we'll hold onto them and treat them as retirement savings (or savings for whichever the next big lifecycle event is - kid's college?)." The key here is that if you know you are going to need to sell your equities on a date certain, you are going to have to take the market's price, and could theoretically wipe out all the interest payments on your cash savings by taking a big hit on your equity investments. So you can't do that if you know you need the money for your house. You can do that if you know you don't need the money and are willing to take a risk in order to potentially take out a smaller mortgage.

Fourth, your investment horizon is long and definite enough that you can start laddering fixed-term investment vehicles like CD's. Since interest rates are going to be rising for at least the first few of the next 5-7 years, you don't want to lock in long-term CD's right now (60-month CD's are paying 2.05% at the first CU I checked), but once you've maxed out your 5%+ APY accounts you could start rolling the monthly interest payments into 3-9 month CD's, taking advantage of rising interest rates (and hopefully funding the CD's with a 2% CB credit card for a little gravy). The advantage of doing this is that since your interest payments on the high-interest checking and savings accounts are still liquid cash, it might be tempting to simply spend them (after all, you don't earn the high interest rates after $5k/$20k/however much). But in order to take advantage of compound interest, you need to immediately put your interest payments into investments that compound!

Finally, interest rates may rise quickly or they may rise slowly, but they will definitely be higher in 5-7+ years than they are today. On the other hand, we have no idea what will happen over the next 5-7+ years with these high-interest liquid accounts I'm talking about. But it does create an interesting edge case: if mortgage interest rates are below 5% APR, then you'll want to make the smallest down payment possible that still qualifies you for the lowest interest rate, in order to keep earning 5%+ APY on your savings. If mortgage interest rates are above 5% APR, you'll want to spend down as much of your liquid savings as possible in order to take out the smallest mortgage possible, and pay off the mortgage as quickly as possible. Tax considerations like the ones I mentioned in the original post may change that calculation around the edges, but the fundamental point is the same: if you're paying more in interest than you're earning on your liquid savings, pay down your loans faster. If you're earning more in interest than you're paying, pay down your loans as slowly as possible.
 

Franklin's Dad

Level 2 Member
Finally, I'm getting some return on my $10-per-month subscription! ;)

Seriously though, this is really great advice. I have a lot more research to do.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
I think the OP touched on a few points I've been pondering recently, in short they are:

  • An Emergency Fund is actually most often the phrase given to people with zero/negative net worth in order to get them saving something... keeping it all in case only makes sense when the amount of the fund is small enough to be damaged by the market.
  • Fire sales in taxable accounts are actually a good thing, as they TLH.
  • The Bond vs Fancy Savings Accounts (TM) argument is flawed by volume... if you are talking $20K or so, then fine, but if you are talking $200K for your fixed income side, it fails. I think this then ties into how much juice for your squeeze.
  • Risk exposure should be dictated by need. Ideally, this also requires the discipline to stick with the investment policy statement, but arbitrarily pulling a 'I'm a 70/30 kinda guy' out of your arse does not do anything for you in terms of hitting goal, or sticking to a plan. The need should be timeline related, such as house buying etc...
The last point, still bothers me, because I'm not sure I like the idea of saying your retirement 'needs' to be (perhaps 90/10) but your house money 'needs' to be 30/70... I dislike this naming, but also I think it may be necessary in order to help create mental structure for the investor, IE it is fallacious and inefficient, but maybe people just need it to keep on track.
 
Quick reactions to @Matt 's thoughts:
  • As we've discussed ad nauseam in other threads, I actually agree with you re: "emergency funds." It's a misleading cliche, but it's also a handy way to refer to "the first money you spend when you have a sudden liquidity crunch for whatever reason." I tried to express this idea by saying you "designate" the liquid high-interest money as your emergency fund: you don't have to DO anything with it, you just keep in mind that that's "the first money" you spend when you need to spend more money than you earn in a given month — it doesn't have to be an emergency, it can be a down payment on a house, or an exciting business opportunity.
  • TLH is perfectly good magic, but @Franklin's Dad isn't talking about investing to harvest losses, he's talking about investing to buy a house! "Incur losses on your taxable investments in order to use them against taxable income" is not a way to buy a house. The bank won't accept deferred losses as a down payment.
  • The juice you get for the squeeze of FSA(TM) is access to your money at face value, and above-market interest rates. No more and no less. So I don't find the scalability argument persuasive. If you have a 70/30 stock/bond allocation of $1M, and you turn it into a 70/26.5/3.5 stock/bond/FSA(TM) allocation, you still have access to the $35k at face value and still earn above-market interest rates. You can designate it as your emergency fund, your house fund, your college savings fund, or your H&B fund, and it's still available at face value and above-market interest rates. That means the first $35k you need to spend in a liquidity crunch doesn't involve marking your investments to market unless you choose to. Of course there are levels of wealth where you may not care about having to sell your investments at market prices, but that's simply being rich enough to be willing to accept losses, i.e., it's letting your wealth level affect your risk tolerance, which may be rational, but doesn't affect the underlying attributes and value of the FSA(TM).
  • Besides the psychological reasons you mentioned, there are practical reasons for "naming" different investment horizons, namely, the effect that withdrawals have your asset allocation, which I brought up in the OP. There's a difference between making an emergency withdrawal from a retirement fund, which, assuming the fund was correctly allocated in the first place, should not affect the underlying asset allocation, and making a planned withdrawal for a large purchase you've been saving up for. In the first case the goal should be to replenish the retirement fund as quickly as possible, and in the second case the person's overall "whole portfolio" asset allocation will be permanently changed. If a roboadvisor doesn't understand what's happened, they'll mechanically recommend what's consistently the wrong asset allocation: too aggressive in the leadup to the large purchase and too conservative afterwards.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
TLH is perfectly good magic, but @Franklin's Dad isn't talking about investing to harvest losses, he's talking about investing to buy a house! "Incur losses on your taxable investments in order to use them against taxable income" is not a way to buy a house. The bank won't accept deferred losses as a down payment.
That then comes down to whether he can afford to or not. In an ideal world, nobody would be in the market because they would all have enough money in cash to achieve all of their goals. However, if someone needs $X by Y date, then they need to consider changing the amount saved, the amount to save, the Y Date or the interest rate. If a higher rate is required, the TLH is a way to make lemonade out of lemons, not to buy a house.

The issue I'm tackling internally right now is while I might say "Never invest in equities with a short time horizon" you are actually invested in equities... since your longer horizon goals are in there... so when you consider all the accounts holistically, you get a merged asset allocation that includes equities, and may be something like 30/70... .the tweaking then comes down to, if you push to 33/67, what will that do in terms of expected return and standard deviations on that return.


The juice you get for the squeeze of FSA(TM) is access to your money at face value, and above-market interest rates. No more and no less. So I don't find the scalability argument persuasive. If you have a 70/30 stock/bond allocation of $1M, and you turn it into a 70/26.5/3.5 stock/bond/FSA(TM) allocation, you still have access to the $35k at face value and still earn above-market interest rates. You can designate it as your emergency fund, your house fund, your college savings fund, or your H&B fund, and it's still available at face value and above-market interest rates. That means the first $35k you need to spend in a liquidity crunch doesn't involve marking your investments to market unless you choose to. Of course there are levels of wealth where you may not care about having to sell your investments at market prices, but that's simply being rich enough to be willing to accept losses, i.e., it's letting your wealth level affect your risk tolerance, which may be rational, but doesn't affect the underlying attributes and value of the FSA(TM).
Honestly, I'd love to agree about the 5% cash being worth it, but I still don't know how to earn 5% APR from these accounts without considerable mental resources and hoop jumping. If I could set up these accounts and trigger the earning with ease I'd be all over them.
 
Re: attention required to get high interest on savings, I agree that without employer direct deposit it's going to be annoying to trigger Mango's new $500 direct deposit requirement. So start with Consumers CU, 5.09% up to $20k (should start here anyway since limit is 4x higher than Mango). Requirements:

1) Log into online banking once per month (set a reminder on the 1st).
2) eDocuments (Set it and forget it. Easy)
3) 1 ACH per month (set up an automatic $5 bill pay on the side of one of your CC — any amount. Easy.)
4) 12 PIN-less debit transactions (use this form I created for my subscribers to create an arbitrary number of recurring $0.50 transactions: https:[//]app.moonclerk.com/pay/ji84vxrafg4 . Cost: $6/month — 12 $0.50 transactions. Easy.)
5) Spend $1,000 on Visa credit card. Cash Rebate Visa Signature card earns 3% CB at grocery stores.

So basically the only affirmative things you need to do are log in once a month and MS $1k per month at grocery stores.

If you have a 5% CB grocery store card, you're sacrificing $20 per month on your grocery store MS and paying $6 to automate 12 debit transactions. 5.09% APY on $20k is ~$84 per month (a little less since you're not compounding), netting $58, or 3.48% APY. If you DON'T have a 5% CB grocery store card (I don't), then you can call 3% CB on grocery stores a wash, in which case you're just paying $6 against $84 in interest, leaving you with 4.68% APY. Not bad.

Of course, if you don't want to cannibalize your grocery store spend you can do the $1k somewhere else, like a Visa Buxx card. That's cheap MS.
 

boredelaire

Level 2 Member
If equities outperform other investments, then you will make more money by remaining heavily invested in equities and selling shares when you need the money. In that sense it's an illusion to view your equity money as different from your cash (re: Dylan's dope money vs. rent money), because it all serves the same purpose. Having a cash reserve can lessen the timing risk of selling shares, depending on your timing ability. But the bigger problem is that we don't know if equities will outperform other investments. Hence the potential value of diversification.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
If equities outperform other investments, then you will make more money by remaining heavily invested in equities and selling shares when you need the money. In that sense it's an illusion to view your equity money as different from your cash (re: Dylan's dope money vs. rent money), because it all serves the same purpose. Having a cash reserve can lessen the timing risk of selling shares, depending on your timing ability. But the bigger problem is that we don't know if equities will outperform other investments. Hence the potential value of diversification.
So this is correct on one level, but the notion that we're looking at more specifically is the timing of when you 'Need the money'. If you just ramble along with a ton of money in equities, and then suddenly decide you need to: get married, buy a house, put a kid through college, pay property taxes.. etc then the chances of you needing a cash reserve increase.

What you actually need (and its hellishly complex to first figure out) is to have multiple investment strategies, each with its own glidepath, and each having internal diversification value baked on top of that, all done in the virtual/theory level, and then have the investments allocated in physical accounts, fewer in number than the strategies that they hold.

Huge topic, super interesting, very complex, but also... at some level you need to just stop worrying about it and save more/spend less.
 
If equities outperform other investments, then you will make more money by remaining heavily invested in equities and selling shares when you need the money. In that sense it's an illusion to view your equity money as different from your cash (re: Dylan's dope money vs. rent money), because it all serves the same purpose. Having a cash reserve can lessen the timing risk of selling shares, depending on your timing ability. But the bigger problem is that we don't know if equities will outperform other investments. Hence the potential value of diversification.
This is a very interesting subject, if you don't mind me expanding on it a little. I think that historical returns during the 20th century period of late industrialism are an extremely flawed guide to the returns we can expect to see over the next 30-60 years. Too often investment advice is the equivalent of "go back in time 60 years and buy IBM stock." Not gonna happen.

The problem is that over long time horizons, in indexed securities, returns on both stocks and bonds will reflect underlying fundamentals. That doesn't mean the return will be the same, since the long term is composed of lots of short terms, and the risk-return tradeoff will hold in the short term. But in the long term a portfolio of domestic and international stocks will reflect the actual economy those stocks represent ownership of, and in the long term a portfolio of domestic and international bonds will reflect the ability of companies to repay their debts at the promised interest rates.

This is the investor's viewpoint of the economist's principle that companies should theoretically be indifferent between financing with equity or debt (they aren't, primarily for tax reasons, but that's a different story).

During any given human's lifetime, there will be imbalances between risk-weighted returns on debt and equity. But the only way to find out which direction the imbalance will manifest is to wait and see.
 
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