Devaluation of the travel experience

ukinny2000

Level 2 Member
That's pretty much where I'm at right now (contrary to my depressing OP). I just finished a few trips that significantly enriched my experience, and the bucket list keeps growing with stuff I never knew existed. Planning to knock out a few next year. I'm glad I took my own advice to broaden my horizon (set out in the OP). Now the challenge is just to come to terms with the person I've become, and to let go of what needs to be let go.
Since there are many like-minded souls, I think it would be great to have a thread where people could post items on their bucket-list; I am sure there are umpteen-bajillion places, festivals etc... that have never appeared on my radar, and I could benefit from reading about!
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
Part of the journey is the reflection and the new perspectives and the comparisons. There is no right way to do this. It is about growth, hopefully!
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
Since there are many like-minded souls, I think it would be great to have a thread where people could post items on their bucket-list; I am sure there are umpteen-bajillion places, festivals etc... that have never appeared on my radar, and I could benefit from reading about!
We have something similar: Your Favorite Places. Please contribute! Either favorites or wishlists.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
The whole notion of a bucket list thread is interesting, but as some of us know, the more we travel, the more new things are added. Although, I am getting down to more obscure now and I am saving some very easy ones for later. One of the things that is fun is meeting people both online and on the road who give me ideas and tips.
 

R.R.

Level 2 Member
I go back to places I have been before and see them through a new lens in a new way.
As time passes, presumably I also see previously-visited places through a different lens. But that's not typically why I return to visit such places.

For me, travel is often like a sorting process. I've visited some destinations (i.e. Venice) with great curiosity and had some fascinating experiences -- but have emerged with the conclusion that I don't really feel pulled to re-visit those locations again unless I'm tagging along with family who really want to go to those places.

In the other bucket land other destinations (i.e. Cinque Terre, London, etc) which I would love to visit each and every time I'm on that particular continent. Soaking up the sunset on a Manarola patio while enjoying local wine and produce (and the friendly resident kitty) never fails to relax me, and there's always a new show to see at Shakespeare's Old Globe Theatre. So, along with new sights or cities, I'll usually try to arrange a side-trip to stay in an old favorite location nearby and feel blessed that its good characteristics still abound.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
Soaking up the sunset on a Manarola patio while enjoying local wine and produce (and the friendly resident kitty) never fails to relax me
I feel relaxed just by reading it.

Funny, that's how I felt about Venice. Other than the compulsion to take a photo at every corner, it was extremely peaceful to find a corner to yourself and watch a gondola go by every minute or so.

Bali is another place where such peace was felt. I yearn to return to both.
 
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AGtravel

Level 2 Member
I think "diversity" is the key in travelling. As I am venturing out for more travel, the list of possibilities is soooooo long that I am not sure I will get bored soon. But again, frequency of travel does matter and the location makes a big difference. For us, some travel are more relaxation oriented while some of them are more adventurous. Well, for now, with 2 young kids, as of now our goal is to get them used to travel :)

Being from India, I have experienced a few and am aware of many amazing places. I know the travelling to India is a long distance and tourism industry is still in developing phase in India but the links I am mentioning below are well developed for "foreign tourism" and have something very unique to offer. I love these places as they are very different and provide exclusive experiences. A big portion of travel for me is knowing and learning new cultures and these below links talks a lot about the diversity in India

1. If you like trains, you will LOVE this -http://www.palaceonwheelsjourneys.com/
Rated as no. 4 Luxury train in the world, this is an experience of its own. Check out the website for details and some amazing pictures. (not cheap though)

2. Another very interesting is travelling/staying in a houseboat ! - https://www.keralatourism.org/specialities/
Check out "backwaters" and "houseboats" as you open the link. Very interested and different experience. They also have amazing spa options and "Ayurveda" treatments (Wikipedia for Ayurveda - the traditional Hindu system of medicine, which is based on the idea of balance in bodily systems and uses diet, herbal treatment, and yogic breathing.) Very relaxing and serene locations.

@italdesign - if you like something different, these can be good honeymoon options as well.
 

HariOm

Transcendent Level
Yeah.. but then again, every year I look back and think what an idiot I was then.
Mark Twain wrote something like, "At 18 I considered my father a fool. By the time I reached 21, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in three short years."
 

HariOm

Transcendent Level
Any other thoughts on the theme of the article - that frequent travel devaluates the travel experience?
Further to the comments above by Matt, MickiSue and the quotation from de Botton, it's all about perspective. Any experience on any day can seem dull or devalued if one fails to appreciate the very fact that one is a living, breathing human being with intelligence and freedom. Whereas the most mundane task can seem like a blissful blessing if the higher perspective is maintained. Tempted to quote from the Bhagavad Gita here, but Bob Marley comes to mind also: "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds..."
 

Hanaleiradio

Level 2 Member
so I thought of this topic again. It is a bit sad to revisit a former favorite destination, only to find you have "outgrown" it and don't really enjoy it anymore....
I just don't have this at all. I go back to places I have been before and see them through a new lens in a new way. I guess I just have a different perspective on this.
I was traveling and missed the OP back in March. I'm glad it was bumped up, as over the past couple of years I've had many of the same thoughts (although with a somewhat different frame) and have enjoyed reading the responses (as I lie in bed with the flu!) For me, "the thrill is gone" from many of my former favorite destinations in the United States. Its not because I've outgrown them, and I doubt that extensive travel has anything to do with it. Rather, I see them clearly "through a new lens in a new way", and conclude that many of those places have changed in ways that I don't like! Therefore, I no longer wish to devote that scarcest of resources--time--to revisiting them.

I'm fortunate to have visited many natural areas in the US before they were discovered by the tourist industry, and the upscale developers in the 90's and 2000's. "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot", and with a few exceptions, the newly developed upscale communities, strip malls, and tourist infrastructure have few endearing qualities over what was there before. It's painful; and at this point the pain produces no new realizations or motivations to work for changes. I rarely go back to those places.

Some favorite domestic cities have also changed for the worst, with San Francisco as exhibit A. I first traveled cross country to SF on my thumb in the early 70s, and have returned every year since, for work and to visit friends. Until a decade or so ago, the city retained certain egalitarian and creative impulses and a very diverse set of residents that complemented its physical beauty--despite frequent change and gentrification. That has changed in the last decade, with the hyper gentrification and the tech invasion. I still enjoy visiting, but the vibe is different and the thrill is gone.

Until a few years ago I traveled weekly for work--nearly all domestic. Assignment was to do a series of interviews and experiences that would provide a deep understanding of the disadvantaged areas in a city. Even though I've been out of that work for nearly a decade, I can still go into most major US cities and within a few days have a very clear updated understanding.

I've only done frequent international travel for the last 10 years, and most of that has been for pleasure. Although its been very enjoyable and highly rewarding, earlier this year I came to the troubling realization that the thrill was fading, if not gone. Upon reflection it hit me that the two trips that stood out the most were those where I had been able to go deep via extensive contact with locals outside of the tourist infrastructure. One was in NZ, where I had enough time (9 weeks) to run into and share experiences with local trekkers. The other was last fall in Japan, where we spent time with a good friend who does relief work with Tsunami/Fukushima survivors. In a week we were able to talk to and observe several of her colleagues in a way that provided enormous insight into the political economy and culture.

Its hard to go deep without either time to spend, or introductions from trusted sources (or both!) Its something I knew from my domestic work and travels, but didn't connect to the international trips. For next year, I'm planning fewer trips with longer duration, and am spending much more front end work determining what I want to dive into, and then having the conversations that will result in introductions from trusted sources to the locals who have expertise in that area. So far, most of those conversations have been great, and I'm jazzed by approach.

As I look back, I think that an interesting precursor of this desire to go deeper on international travels was a realization that came a couple of years ago from applying our travel research skills to where we live. We decided that instead of taking weekend trips domestically, we would stay home and choose some facet of the city or surrounding area we wanted to learn about, and then dive in. At first we approached it as tourists, using travel guidebooks and online resources. It was enjoyable and illuminating. But then we'd talk to friends and colleagues and discover that they knew something or someone of relevance. Introductions would be made and sometimes amazing experiences would result. Over the last couple of years its resulted in much deeper connections to the city than we've ever had. At this point, I get much more pleasure from exposing my young grandson (and his parents) to unique local experiences than I do jetting off to the beach for the weekend.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
I was traveling and missed the OP back in March. I'm glad it was bumped up, as over the past couple of years I've had many of the same thoughts (although with a somewhat different frame) and have enjoyed reading the responses (as I lie in bed with the flu!) For me, "the thrill is gone" from many of my former favorite destinations in the United States. Its not because I've outgrown them, and I doubt that extensive travel has anything to do with it. Rather, I see them clearly "through a new lens in a new way", and conclude that many of those places have changed in ways that I don't like! Therefore, I no longer wish to devote that scarcest of resources--time--to revisiting them.

I'm fortunate to have visited many natural areas in the US before they were discovered by the tourist industry, and the upscale developers in the 90's and 2000's. "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot", and with a few exceptions, the newly developed upscale communities, strip malls, and tourist infrastructure have few endearing qualities over what was there before. It's painful; and at this point the pain produces no new realizations or motivations to work for changes. I rarely go back to those places.

Some favorite domestic cities have also changed for the worst, with San Francisco as exhibit A. I first traveled cross country to SF on my thumb in the early 70s, and have returned every year since, for work and to visit friends. Until a decade or so ago, the city retained certain egalitarian and creative impulses and a very diverse set of residents that complemented its physical beauty--despite frequent change and gentrification. That has changed in the last decade, with the hyper gentrification and the tech invasion. I still enjoy visiting, but the vibe is different and the thrill is gone.

Until a few years ago I traveled weekly for work--nearly all domestic. Assignment was to do a series of interviews and experiences that would provide a deep understanding of the disadvantaged areas in a city. Even though I've been out of that work for nearly a decade, I can still go into most major US cities and within a few days have a very clear updated understanding.

I've only done frequent international travel for the last 10 years, and most of that has been for pleasure. Although its been very enjoyable and highly rewarding, earlier this year I came to the troubling realization that the thrill was fading, if not gone. Upon reflection it hit me that the two trips that stood out the most were those where I had been able to go deep via extensive contact with locals outside of the tourist infrastructure. One was in NZ, where I had enough time (9 weeks) to run into and share experiences with local trekkers. The other was last fall in Japan, where we spent time with a good friend who does relief work with Tsunami/Fukushima survivors. In a week we were able to talk to and observe several of her colleagues in a way that provided enormous insight into the political economy and culture.

Its hard to go deep without either time to spend, or introductions from trusted sources (or both!) Its something I knew from my domestic work and travels, but didn't connect to the international trips. For next year, I'm planning fewer trips with longer duration, and am spending much more front end work determining what I want to dive into, and then having the conversations that will result in introductions from trusted sources to the locals who have expertise in that area. So far, most of those conversations have been great, and I'm jazzed by approach.

As I look back, I think that an interesting precursor of this desire to go deeper on international travels was a realization that came a couple of years ago from applying our travel research skills to where we live. We decided that instead of taking weekend trips domestically, we would stay home and choose some facet of the city or surrounding area we wanted to learn about, and then dive in. At first we approached it as tourists, using travel guidebooks and online resources. It was enjoyable and illuminating. But then we'd talk to friends and colleagues and discover that they knew something or someone of relevance. Introductions would be made and sometimes amazing experiences would result. Over the last couple of years its resulted in much deeper connections to the city than we've ever had. At this point, I get much more pleasure from exposing my young grandson (and his parents) to unique local experiences than I do jetting off to the beach for the weekend.
Really enjoyed your post. SF has changed. I agree. I was there last month and really noticed. I too had the chance to "go deep" in NZ many years ago (before it was on the radar) and spent about 12 weeks there. It was very special to spend that kind of time there. Hope you are feeling better soon!
 

HGF

Level 2 Member
I personally like quick, frequent trips. My basis for that is if I like a destination or region, I can always go back. I also just love traveling in general. I would rather go to Japan for 3 days on 3 separate trips each than for 9 days on one trip. Another reason is that I have limited vacation time, which I assume many of you do as well, so I simply can't go on many long trips a year.

I do agree with the OP that I do repeat the same experience pretty often, which is mostly caused by having short trips. It simply takes more travel time to get off the beaten path, so I end up not having time for it during a 3 day weekend to Europe.
 

Matt S NYC

Level 2 Member
I personally like quick, frequent trips. My basis for that is if I like a destination or region, I can always go back. I also just love traveling in general. I would rather go to Japan for 3 days on 3 separate trips each than for 9 days on one trip. Another reason is that I have limited vacation time, which I assume many of you do as well, so I simply can't go on many long trips a year.

I do agree with the OP that I do repeat the same experience pretty often, which is mostly caused by having short trips. It simply takes more travel time to get off the beaten path, so I end up not having time for it during a 3 day weekend to Europe.
It takes me at least 3 days to fully get over the jet-lag. I have the exact opposite vacation strategy. I try and make big trips (Anywhere in a different hemisphere) at least 10 days to get the full value out of the points I used to get there.
 

R.R.

Level 2 Member
It takes me at least 3 days to fully get over the jet-lag. I have the exact opposite vacation strategy. I try and make big trips (Anywhere in a different hemisphere) at least 10 days to get the full value out of the points I used to get there.
Yep, same here -- though I usually aim for 17+ days. I guess that's why I only take these overseas trips once a year, what with restrictions on DS's willingness to be away from home, and, to a lesser extent, on vacation time.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
It takes me at least 3 days to fully get over the jet-lag.
Try 12 days. That's how long it takes me to recover from Asia. The first 10 days is pure hell. And that's not even considering the jet lag experienced in Asia. So yeah, I'm with you on the "minimum 10 days".

I do envy those who recover faster (which seems to be the whole world, heh).
 

Matt S NYC

Level 2 Member
Yep, same here -- though I usually aim for 17+ days. I guess that's why I only take these overseas trips once a year, what with restrictions on DS's willingness to be away from home, and, to a lesser extent, on vacation time.
I figure we get about 3.5 weeks of usable vacation time each year, so now we typically try to divide it among 2 trips with a couple of long weekends thrown in. We have managed to do two 3-week trips since we got married 3+ years ago though, but our trips have been getting shorter as we've become better at MSing. One was our honeymoon to Japan and South Korea and the other was to Australia the following year. Internationally, since those trips, we've done Fiji and Montenegro/Croatia/Greece + Germany. Both were closer to 2 weeks. We have the Maldives coming up in January in Etihad's A380 apartments which we are super-psyched about and that is actually only going to be 12 days. Then in the summer we have 10 days in Argentina and Chile (in fairness, no jetlag to South America).
 

GettingReady

Level 2 Member
Try 12 days. That's how long it takes me to recover from Asia. The first 10 days is pure hell. And that's not even considering the jet lag experienced in Asia. So yeah, I'm with you on the "minimum 10 days".

I do envy those who recover faster (which seems to be the whole world, heh).
Um, a great medication to help with jet lag is Provigil. Prescription only though. A doctor prescribed it for my dh due to his work hours. He rarely takes it, but we keep getting the refills. He's on numerous meds, I'm on none (hate pills), but we've both taken it for 2o hour non-stop road trips. It's great. No shakiness like overdosing on caffeine. Obviously you can't just walk in anywhere and ask for it, but if you see a physician regularly....
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
Um, a great medication to help with jet lag is Provigil. Prescription only though. A doctor prescribed it for my dh due to his work hours. He rarely takes it, but we keep getting the refills. He's on numerous meds, I'm on none (hate pills), but we've both taken it for 2o hour non-stop road trips. It's great. No shakiness like overdosing on caffeine. Obviously you can't just walk in anywhere and ask for it, but if you see a physician regularly....
Actually, I swear by "No Jet Lag", a homeopathic remedy from New Zealand, easily found online. Drugstore dot com beats everyone's else's prices right now.
 

HGF

Level 2 Member
I keep to a strict sleeping and eating schedule on the days of travel in order to avoid jet lag. Like I'll wake up really early (3am) on the days I am traveling to Asia, so I can fall asleep during the first half of the flight (which is the early morning in Asia), so when I land in the afternoon/evening, I have been awake for 6+ hours. Coming back is somewhat trickier since I don't want to take time out of my vacation going to bed early, staying awake all night, etc, so it requires me to take benadryl or something that makes me drowsy so I can fall asleep when I need to on the flight back.
 

Matt S NYC

Level 2 Member
I keep to a strict sleeping and eating schedule on the days of travel in order to avoid jet lag. Like I'll wake up really early (3am) on the days I am traveling to Asia, so I can fall asleep during the first half of the flight (which is the early morning in Asia), so when I land in the afternoon/evening, I have been awake for 6+ hours. Coming back is somewhat trickier since I don't want to take time out of my vacation going to bed early, staying awake all night, etc, so it requires me to take benadryl or something that makes me drowsy so I can fall asleep when I need to on the flight back.
I never sleep the night before a trip that will involve a lot of jetlag. It helps me shock my system on to whatever time I'm headed to.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
I never sleep the night before a trip that will involve a lot of jetlag. It helps me shock my system on to whatever time I'm headed to.
I don't sleep the night before a trip, period, b/c my flight is always at 6am and I'm done packing only at 3am. Unfortunataely most are for domestic travel, so I'm just being an idiot. But thanks for giving me a legit excuse for long haul.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
A couple of thoughts on Hanaleiradio's wonderful post.

It's unfortunate when development waters down authenticity. Always happens. But some development is also good for me. I'm in the middle of the pack when it comes to travel preference, between the authenticity-seeking backpacker and the tour bus lover who snaps a few photos and leaves. Right now I'm all about hotel redemptions, which of course requires chain hotels to be available. I was fine without it before. It's just too good of a value to pass up right now. When it evaporates I look forward to returning to the more humble but equally rewarding days of travel.

It is indeed enormously rewarding to gain deep understanding of another culture, and it is best achieved with an open mind and close contact with locals. I consider myself lucky to have dated someone from a different culture and have had the chance to experience their world and perspective (much more is yet to be experienced, which I am eager to). Unfortunately I'm a semi-slave to Corporate America, which means fairly limited vacation time. I have chosen breadth over depth in order to experience as many things as possible, but in doing so I sacrifice, you guessed it, depth and the luxury to "take it easy". But I am working with days, not weeks, at a time. It's a resource-constrained environment for sure, and as Hanaleiradio says, time is the scarcest of our resources. Use it well.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
A couple of thoughts on Hanaleiradio's wonderful post.

It's unfortunate when development waters down authenticity. Always happens. But some development is also good for me. I'm in the middle of the pack when it comes to travel preference, between the authenticity-seeking backpacker and the tour bus lover who snaps a few photos and leaves. Right now I'm all about hotel redemptions, which of course requires chain hotels to be available. I was fine without it before. It's just too good of a value to pass up right now. When it evaporates I look forward to returning to the more humble but equally rewarding days of travel.

It is indeed enormously rewarding to gain deep understanding of another culture, and it is best achieved with an open mind and close contact with locals. I consider myself lucky to have dated someone from a different culture and have had the chance to experience their world and perspective (much more is yet to be experienced, which I am eager to). Unfortunately I'm a semi-slave to Corporate America, which means fairly limited vacation time. I have chosen breadth over depth in order to experience as many things as possible, but in doing so I sacrifice, you guessed it, depth and the luxury to "take it easy". But I am working with days, not weeks, at a time. It's a resource-constrained environment for sure, and as Hanaleiradio says, time is the scarcest of our resources. Use it well.
I've gotten to know Stefan of Rapid Travel Chai fame through the years in this hobby because we share a love of obscure, less well traveled destinations. What he does on small amounts of times is utterly amazing.
 

Barefootwoman

Level 2 Member
I follow Christine Krzyszton and find her travel patterns to be quite amazing.
I enjoy travel immensely or else I wouldn't be here, but can find a good book as equally rewarding, lol

I am fortunate I think to live in a large multicultural city, to have a South American born and raised partner and extended multicultural family....makes for a bigger world no matter where I go.
If I were to ever return to my rural homogenous roots, I'd probably start wandering even more often. The world is small, I think.
 

Marl

Level 2 Member
As someone who is still doing the 1-2 big trips per year vs more frequent travel, I can't say I relate yet. However, when ever I plan out travel, even if just 2 in a year, I find that going for 2 very different experiences can capture my imagination for months of looking forward to the trip as well as the enjoyment of that trip. One day I am excited to have a "bubble" experience at Disney World or a resort beach destination and the next I love the idea of hiking through West Virginia or chasing down that great plate of shrimp and grits on a road trip in the Carolinas.

I think the more we vary not only the length of the trip but also the type of travel we do, the less tired we would be of it. I would imagine hopping from big city to big city would wear on you over time.
 

Suzie

Level 2 Member
Try 12 days. That's how long it takes me to recover from Asia. The first 10 days is pure hell. And that's not even considering the jet lag experienced in Asia. So yeah, I'm with you on the "minimum 10 days".

I do envy those who recover faster (which seems to be the whole world, heh).
I'm so glad to hear you say this - I thought it was just me! I got home last Saturday and am still going to bed at 9:00 and waking at 3:00 am - good lord.
 

Suzie

Level 2 Member
Thanks, very interesting. In fact, SO mentioned India when we briefly discussed this topic. So, maybe.
I just returned from India. A backpacker we met in Nepal told us about a Sikh temple in Delhi that feeds 10,000 people a day. We checked it out when we arrived in Delhi and spent an afternoon working in the kitchen making rotis. It was an awesome experience and my best memory of Delhi. If you are interested in that sort of experience the temple name is Bangla Sahib Gurdwara. The people there are so friendly and welcoming - I just can't put into words the way it touched us.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
I just returned from India. A backpacker we met in Nepal told us about a Sikh temple in Delhi that feeds 10,000 people a day. We checked it out when we arrived in Delhi and spent an afternoon working in the kitchen making rotis. It was an awesome experience and my best memory of Delhi. If you are interested in that sort of experience the temple name is Bangla Sahib Gurdwara. The people there are so friendly and welcoming - I just can't put into words the way it touched us.
Awesome. I'm pretty sure I saw a similar trip report recently - I thought it was TIF but I can't find it there, so maybe it was someone else. Anyway, congrats on the great experience.
 
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