Churning Organization - Let's Get Physical! (With Pictures)

[CWAL]

Hope the title got everyone's attention.

It was suggested to me that this post may be of some benefit to the members here, and I've never really seen something like it before, so here goes nothing!


When I first started churning card and getting points, I kept track of way more than I needed to. Lots of silly stuff like the last 4 digits of each GC I bought, which MO they went to, and so on. When I began purchasing more at a faster pace, it became clear that electronic record-keeping just wasn't going to cut it. At one point, I thought I lost a MO (I didn't actually, I just forgot to write down what I did to it. After a few iterations, I came up with the method I'll be showing today.

Different people are going to have different things that work for them, but the big takeaway is to be very consistent with yourself on a day to day basis. It will save you many a headache.

Each step has a corresponding picture here:
0) So you bought a bunch of gift cards and see this lying in front of you. Well, now you've got some work to do...

1) I like to write down on the top of my receipt the day I made the purchase, as well as which cards I used, and how much I put on each. This is on the bottom of most receipts anyways, but I end up with my receipts folded up, and this makes it easier to enter into the computer later.

2,3) Start cracking cards. I love these flower ones. Just snap them in half like this and rip the card out. Very satisfying. Don't forget to take off the sticky gunk!

4,5) Uh oh, looks like you got one of those pesky preset PINS. Stupid Mastercards... Just crack it open like this and you can read it. Grab the card, yank it out, and write the PIN on it with a thin sharpie. Other kinds of pens are horrible to try to write with...

6) The real meat of the operation. I found these photo pages at one of my favorite liquidation spots. (Hey, I'm allowed to actually purchase things other than MO there!) I always put the receipt in the top slot until all its associated GC are liquidated. Things that need to be dealt with go in the bottom right pocket. Finished stuff goes in the bottom left. I like to do my best to keep my receipt stacks self consistent - ie, I try to liquidate each purchase at one time if possible.

7,8,9,10) Take your lovely stack of GC to your favorite liquidation location. Before I go into the store, I grab the GC I want to liquidate, and put them in one pocket. When making the purchase, I'll take out a few at a time white side up, and flip them over in my other hand as they're used. Once the receipt prints, I'll put the flipped ones in a different pocket. If a card has a remaining small balance, it goes in yet another different pocket. In this case, for illustrative purposes, I've pretended that the CSR refused to sell me another MO to liquidate the last two cards. As a side note, I like to fill out the MOs ASAP, usually while the next batch is printing.

11) Once back in the car, I take the fully spent cards and put them at the front of my notebook. These eventually get emptied into a box at home.

12) Receipt for liquidation goes in the left side, MO goes in the "needs attention" slot. Notice there are still two GC with the MO. Dang pesky CSR trying to make their own rules!

13) Time to deposit! I endorse, and write on the original purchase receipt the date and an abbreviation for the bank I deposited to.

14) If it's mobile deposit, I dump them back here. These eventually get "DEPOSITED" stamps and emptied into a box when they clear.

15) Well, looks like I had time to finish liquidating! GC went to the front of the book since they're empty, and all the receipts go into the bottom. Only thing left to do is...

16) Endorse, deposit, and record on the original receipt.

17) Since all that's left on the page at that point would be the lower right hand pocket filled with receipts, everything should be good to go. If the numbers on the right side of the receipt roughly match the numbers on the left, I fold them all up and put them into trading card pages at the front of the book. Eventually these pages start filling up in roughly chronological order, and they too get taken out and stacked in a box.

To anyone who made it this far, hope this was helpful. May the CSRs be ever in your favor!

 

[GettingReady]

An Excel spreadsheet named "Tracking" works good for me. I'll enter the date, store, value, date, liquidation, portal (if used). I'll use "control F" and the last four digits to find the GC when I need to document liquidation. It's nice to see the "big" picture.

Like you though I use the different pocket in pants or purse method. I also have a sharpie and mark zero on my GCs when liquidated. If there's a balance left, I use a round circle stickie and write the amount.

It took me awhile to figure out what worked for me.

 

[MickiSue]

I am WAY more casual. I buy about 90% of my GCs online, so it keeps the mess in the car to a minimum.

For them, I pull off the white strip, and cut a small edge of it. That goes on the card, next to the first four numbers. The rest goes on the paper the card was attached to, covering the sticky part. Then the card goes on top, and I move on to the next.

Once all the cards are separated, and have a bit of paper on them, I begin activating them. As they're activated, the last four digits are written with a fine sharpy on the paper, and the PIN is written on the bit of paper on the card, and the original paper, as well.

Those then go in a basket on our mail desk, and the cards go in a particular pocket in my purse.

As I use them (cards for the MO, cash for the fees) the cards go in a different pocket in my purse.

VGCs are similar, except that I just write the last four digits on the wrapping, and stick it in the glove compartment until the cards are used. Then I throw the wrapping.

All used cards go in a box.

I have the proof of payment at the website, and on the CC websites. Thermal paper receipts start to fade within a few weeks, and are gone, before you do your taxes the next year.

 

[hooha23]

I keep an excel general ledger too (CPA...its in my blood), and I hang onto everything, but its not super organized. All of my cards sit in a rubber band and all of my invoices/money order ends sit in a binder clip until this "batch" is done (ie: cards have been paid off). Upon which, they are retired to a box. I keep a trash bag under my desk for all of the junk that comes in the mail. JUST in case I throw something important away.

I do have my nuances though. And my double/triple checks. All it takes is ONE screw up to have you put other controls in place.

I got hasty one time and lined up 9 money order to tear off the edges. One was facing the wrong way. Ripped the darn thing right in half. I was worried I was going to have to go back to Walmart to try and get a replacement. Luckily, my local bank was cool with just taping up the money order.

 

[Someone]

I use one big shipping envelope each month and stuff everything in there. If a problem comes up I'll sort it then. No need to waste time pre-sorting and tracking a bunch of crap I'll probably never need. At the start of the month I label a new envelope with the current month and the previous month goes on a shelf.

No, I don't keep business receipts in a shoebox, but this is a hobby and in many years of activity I've never needed to look at anything from my big envelopes.

 

[Matt]

Firstly, thanks to @CWAL for the in depth post, whether I agree with it or not, I really appreciate someone sharing a process since it allows us to reflect on the pros and cons of it, and of our own systems. It also gave me an idea for something new here, which I'll bring up in a new post.

I think that many people are approaching this differently, and while I don't really buy giftcards any longer, when I did, my approach was closer to @Someone though mine were shredded pretty quickly.

Will somewhat cross post into this to discuss ideas further.

 

[ben]

For me, things are pretty simple. For visa gift cards, I enter the name of the card, credit card used, date purchased, amount, fee, and liquidation method into a spreadsheet. On each visa gift card, I will also write the date purchased and PIN on the back using a permanent marker. I don't usually keep the receipts or cards which have been completely liquidated.

 

[CWAL]

It looks like my method kind of falls in the middle of the spectrum here.

I keep the receipts organized because I like the option of quick computer entry in the future: I'm a fan of charts and graphs and seeing how I made my points and exactly what it cost me.

Once I got past the point of one transaction every day or two, doing the computerized record keeping immediately wasn't worth my time.

All my spent cards and MO are just stacked in boxes. The only reason I keep them is as another layer of "seriously, I bought all these myself. Here are all my receipts organized to show the path of my own money. Here is a huge pile of GC as supporting evidence." The space it takes up is minimal, just a couple boxes in the attic.

I would hate to have to do the receipt organization all of a sudden. It takes only moments to organize now. Whereas the very small chance that I should need to present them organized in the future multiplied by the time it would take to do so is (IMO) larger than the time it takes to pre-organize them, I chose the latter.

 

[haserfauld]

That's way more organized than I was.

 

[daveinla]

I haven't been doing this recently, but I still have a large stash of emptied VGC that I'm reluctant to throw out, at my wife's dismay. When do you guys feel comfortable throwing them out? And do you shred them or just toss them in the trash?

 

[Matt]

So, as you can see from my other posts/threads, I like the idea here, so without being negative, I'd like to explore 'why'.

There are two clear levels here:

1. A record/ledger of the cards and transactions
2. The storage of the cards themselves

• Why do we need either? What could happen that would mean knowing what happened to what card when matter?
• Do we need to keep the actual card, or can we resolve an issue with the image of the card?

I'd love to hear thoughts on this, and drill down into what is really necessary, and then improve the system.

 

[HariOm]

....and while I don't really buy giftcards any longer...

Because you're focused on... reselling?

 

[HariOm]

1. A record/ledger of the cards and transactions
2. The storage of the cards themselves

• Why do we need either? What could happen that would mean knowing what happened to what card when matter?
• Do we need to keep the actual card, or can we resolve an issue with the image of the card?

1. Record: for me, the receipts tell the story without any need for a ledger.
2. Storage of cards: maybe an image of the card would suffice, but that would require extra steps of creating and storing the image, as opposed to just tossing the card in the big envelope/folder. So for me, I'll trade some space in the filing cabinet to eliminate those steps, small though they may be.

 

[Matt]

Because you're focused on... reselling?

Not really, I tried it out last week to see if a structure can be created and then somewhat automated. I built an accounting system in Xero which was useful, and became a Xero Certified Partner. My goal from the experiment was more to see if I could walk someone through running their business books and payroll. Reselling being one of the hardest businesses to model, so a good pressure test.

 

[Matt]

1. Record: for me, the receipts tell the story without any need for a ledger.
2. Storage of cards: maybe an image of the card would suffice, but that would require extra steps of creating and storing the image, as opposed to just tossing the card in the big envelope/folder. So for me, I'll trade some space in the filing cabinet to eliminate those steps, small though they may be.

For what reason though? I'd like to refine what we are all trying to achieve with our systems, and if they are necessary, then distill that need into something we can produce with less effort.

 

[CWAL]

I feel the primary reason people feel a need to keep records is the fear of an audit of some sort.

I have zero experience with such a circumstance, so have no idea if keeping the receipts is necessary, but it does seem prudent to me, and at this point involves little effort.

The fear of audit is likely unfounded at lower levels of MS, but as the numbers get higher, the chances likely get higher and the potential downsides become greater.

Maybe just a pile of credit card statements would be enough to alleviate audit concerns. If so, perhaps everything in doing is a waste of time, except insofar as it helps me be organized on a day to day basis with the goal of not losing cards or MOs.

 

[GettingReady]

I like to keep records, so I can visually "see" how much I've done of what. It's also nice to see in black and white that the "income" is greater than the "expense" and I get miles on top of that since I don't factor their value as income.

 

[HariOm]

I haven't experienced this, but recently someone posted about money being refunded to a gift card, after they'd completed a load of some kind. And they had already discarded the gift card and no longer had the number. At least one comment mentioned a similar experience. That's what's got me saving cards and receipts for a longer time, just in case. MS takes enough time already, without having to deal with one of those time-drains we've all faced, like chasing down lost funds from a pre-hacked gift card.

 

[Voyaging Doc]

I keep all hard copies until the GCs are drained.

1) Purchase GC - keep purchase receipt in stack by date. Top of receipt I record "6/1/16" + "3 x 500 VGC" + "Amex BC 1234" and I circle the serial numbers of the GCs on the receipt
2) On the back of GCs I write purchase date, GC amount, CC used to buy
3) once I spend down the GC I put a big fat X on it and write date consumed and "[Storename] $999.XX MO"
4) On MO I write "Deposited XXXX 6/1/16 Conf# XXXXX".
5) All GCs must have proof of drained otherwise it sits in a pile of pending receipts/GCs. I scan all this together with my office-grade scanner I got from a Dell deal online which saves it into MS folder on the cloud. Once a month or week I'll go in and rename the scanned PDF file to describe the time, amount, cc, and details of purchase. YYYY-MM-DD-MMSS-Storename-3x500_VGCs-1520.25-Drained.pdf, If I don't bother putting in the effort to rename they are all at least organized by month shoudl I ever need to go back to it
6) Once scanned and everything successfully deposited all of it gets shredded, though I keep the GCs until i figure out how I can recycle

I keep meticulous records because should any authority question it I have all the proof I need. Should I have a mixup like a refund onto any card or I've mistakenly missed a GC I have a multi-step verification process whereby I can easily identify if I've missed draining a GC. Images of everything is a must. Because of this I've picked up on almost 10k of GC/MOs I mistakenly assumed were used. The problem with MS'ing is simple errors can lead to major losses.

I don't waste time with spreadsheets because that is probably the most time consuming but if I need to do it I can easily go back and access all that data as everything is laid out in my scanned MS folders.

 

[Matt]

So lets dig a little more and ask questions that might be important later.

I feel the primary reason people feel a need to keep records is the fear of an audit of some sort.

I have zero experience with such a circumstance, so have no idea if keeping the receipts is necessary, but it does seem prudent to me, and at this point involves little effort.

If you are audited, what interest would the auditor have in your records? If it was the IRS, would they care about income undeclared? Does the IRS actually look into bank accounts and say 'wow you look like you are earning more than $40k per year from your job,where is my tax?' if they did, would the system you have be enough, or too much?

The fear of audit is likely unfounded at lower levels of MS, but as the numbers get higher, the chances likely get higher and the potential downsides become greater.

Chances of audit increase from type of job (IE they profile certain careers) and level of recorded income. MS wouldn't show up - BUT there might be a possibility of SARs and whatnot creating attention.

I like to keep records, so I can visually "see" how much I've done of what. It's also nice to see in black and white that the "income" is greater than the "expense" and I get miles on top of that since I don't factor their value as income.

Fair, but can it be done in a different way, faster, with less effort?

I haven't experienced this, but recently someone posted about money being refunded to a gift card, after they'd completed a load of some kind. And they had already discarded the gift card and no longer had the number. At least one comment mentioned a similar experience. That's what's got me saving cards and receipts for a longer time, just in case. MS takes enough time already, without having to deal with one of those time-drains we've all faced, like chasing down lost funds from a pre-hacked gift card.

Had this happen badly for store GC, and it was a nightmare.. a year later I went through a collection of them on a slow Sunday and found $250. However, there is a time when it is 'done'. For example, with my store cards (kitchen appliances) once I have the appliances installed, I feel I can toss the cards.

For cash like cards, once the MO has been cashed, how long do you really need to keep the funding GCs?

 

[Matt]

I keep all hard copies until the GCs are drained.

1) Purchase GC - keep purchase receipt in stack by date. Top of receipt I record "6/1/16" + "3 x 500 VGC" + "Amex BC 1234" and I circle the serial numbers of the GCs on the receipt
2) On the back of GCs I write purchase date, GC amount, CC used to buy
3) once I spend down the GC I put a big fat X on it and write date consumed and "[Storename] $999.XX MO"
4) On MO I write "Deposited XXXX 6/1/16 Conf# XXXXX".
5) All GCs must have proof of drained otherwise it sits in a pile of pending receipts/GCs. I scan all this together with my office-grade scanner I got from a Dell deal online which saves it into MS folder on the cloud. Once a month or week I'll go in and rename the scanned PDF file to describe the time, amount, cc, and details of purchase. YYYY-MM-DD-MMSS-Storename-3x500_VGCs-1520.25-Drained.pdf, If I don't bother putting in the effort to rename they are all at least organized by month shoudl I ever need to go back to it
6) Once scanned and everything successfully deposited all of it gets shredded, though I keep the GCs until i figure out how I can recycle

I keep meticulous records because should any authority question it I have all the proof I need. Should I have a mixup like a refund onto any card or I've mistakenly missed a GC I have a multi-step verification process whereby I can easily identify if I've missed draining a GC. Images of everything is a must. Because of this I've picked up on almost 10k of GC/MOs I mistakenly assumed were used. The problem with MS'ing is simple errors can lead to major losses.

I don't waste time with spreadsheets because that is probably the most time consuming but if I need to do it I can easily go back and access all that data as everything is laid out in my scanned MS folders.

I like the process, but what I'd like to see (and can perhaps deduce with closer reading) is not what you do, but what you seek to achieve. If we can bottle that, we might be able to turn it into a simple smartphone photo+hashtag to achieve the same with less work...

 

[GettingReady]

I'm not worried about an audit, although records would be nice if it ever occurred. My record keeping is more for my own personal benefit and to see the big picture.

" Can it be done in a different way, faster, with less effort?" Undoubtedly.

However, over time I have streamlined it. I rarely go to Simon but let's use them as an example. I enter one line in Excel with date, place bought, value, CC used, and card number. I can then copy and paste that for how many cards I've bought. Usually I just have to change the last four digits of the gift card number.

When it comes to liquidating and documenting that aspect, I use "control" and "F" and the last four digits of the card to find the card number on the spreadsheet. Since I would never liquidate just one card, that information can also be copied and pasted for the cards I used.

I can also color code my husband's purchases and highlight pending orders or portal payouts.

Where I lose a lot of time is keeping track of what is owed on what CC, and which account(s) I'm going to pay it out of. I thought Quicken would help there but there's often a lag time of a couple of days and not all accounts well update on Quicken.

Thus I need to manually put in the information. I have way too many pre-paid and checking accounts because of experimenting with different ones and opening them for different uses. Having money spread out also makes it more difficult. I plan to close and consolidate some accts before we go to EU.

 

[HariOm]

For cash like cards, once the MO has been cashed, how long do you really need to keep the funding GCs?

For me it's more a matter of, would I rather empty the file once per year, or once per month? 1x just takes less time than 12x.

 

[HariOm]

Because of this I've picked up on almost 10k of GC/MOs I mistakenly assumed were used. The problem with MS'ing is simple errors can lead to major losses.

This morning I read the above and thought, "Yeah, but my system is so simple and clear. Not possible to miss stuff like that." Then after lunch while organizing files, I came across a $950 MO from three months ago that has not yet been deposited. Always room for improvement. The Dalai Lama says, "We can deny everything, except that we have the possibility of becoming better."

 

[agrippa472]

This morning I read the above and thought, "Yeah, but my system is so simple and clear. Not possible to miss stuff like that." Then after lunch while organizing files, I came across a $950 MO from three months ago that has not yet been deposited. Always room for improvement. The Dalai Lama says, "We can deny everything, except that we have the possibility of becoming better."

Luckily I have yet to find any undeposited MO's. I usually buy the GCs and put them by the front door. Once I use up the GCs, I wrap them in the receipt for the corresponding MO and throw it into a ziplock back in the kitchen junk drawer. Not yet deposited MOs go into a pile on my counter near the dining room table. Once I deposit the MOs, they go into an envelope in the same ziplock bag as the GCs. The only ones I really keep track of are the ones that I scan into my computer before mailing them off to Schwab because the ink is too light to deposit with my phone.

 

[runtimmyc]

CWAL, I like how disciplined you are at organization. Like others have said, the need for this organization may or may not be needed and it would be a good thought experiment to determine if this is necessary.

I have one question to contribute to the discussion, why should one keep the gift card associated with the MO and/or receipt tied to together? I, personally, just keep all the receipts, gift cards, and MOs together in a box with no order. I highly doubt that having a super organized "paper" trail for each individual gift card would be more helpful then a big box filled with everything mixed together.

I do believe in keeping the MOs intact in the case a bank decides to reverse a deposit. There are some data points on FT of BOA not capturing photos of the MOs correctly (ATM deposit) , and then later reversing the deposit weeks later.
Everything else I keep just in case of audit (or the unknown situations I do not know about).

 

[Voyaging Doc]

For "in case of audit" throwing everything in a box works well.

For me, with hundreds of GCs and MOs around I would fail my own "personal" audit throwing everything in a monthly box. Failing to deposit one MO, or to use one GC in a sea of 500 of them, can be easily missed unless you set up a structured way of accounting for everything.

I like the process, but what I'd like to see (and can perhaps deduce with closer reading) is not what you do, but what you seek to achieve. If we can bottle that, we might be able to turn it into a simple smartphone photo+hashtag to achieve the same with less work...

I guess I'm still confused by what you're asking. The organization is 1) personal accounting/record keeping 2) in case of IRS or bank audit. I'm sure the IRS only cares about tax, but in order to get to that question they want to know where you're getting the money from. If they see you depositing large numbers of MOs, you have burden of proof to prove that someone else is not paying you that money. If you are scaling up to large quantities theoretically you could mask several K per month in income within a much larger number of circuitous MS'ing. And you would have to be able to prove otherwise.

For personal accounting I like to see how much of my spend is from MS'ing, and what my costs are. It's not absolutely necessary, but I want to be able to easily come up with the data if needed for future spending goals, or to see if the costs and efforts of MS'ing are worth the return via redemptions. If I'm losing MOs/GCs or I'm killing too much time for just 1 or 2 nights with a chain then I might drop the habit or switch gears to a different loyalty program.

 

[CWAL]

I like the process, but what I'd like to see (and can perhaps deduce with closer reading) is not what you do, but what you seek to achieve. If we can bottle that, we might be able to turn it into a simple smartphone photo+hashtag to achieve the same with less work...

My personal reasoning behind this is twofold: 1) Ensure that no GCs are left with balance on them. (sanity) 2) Somewhat organized receipts in case of needing to reference them later for any reason. For me the only use thus far is simply interest in graphing out the spend/rewards. (entertainment/hedging against future needs)

I think this could be done with an app, but in my mind, the app would just end up being an electronic extension of my current physical system, in essence not contributing anything to the first objective. The second objective for me is already fulfilled by way of the process used to complete the first. I have gone for weeks to months without entering anything into the computer with no ill effects.

I have one question to contribute to the discussion, why should one keep the gift card associated with the MO and/or receipt tied to together? I, personally, just keep all the receipts, gift cards, and MOs together in a box with no order. I highly doubt that having a super organized "paper" trail for each individual gift card would be more helpful then a big box filled with everything mixed together.

I keep them together as it fulfill the main objective outlined above - ensuring everything is cycled without something going missing.

Now, granted, I could just have one huge pouch with 'full gc', one with 'empty gc', same with MO before/after deposit, but then you mix in stuff like CFP, etc... My current physical only system has no problem dealing with a CFP or using a GC to pay for regular expenses - just write it on the purchase receipt.

 

[MickiSue]

I think I understand your question, Matt, which is why, once the GC is drained, all I save are the GCs.

I'm not particularly worried about audit, or even SARS. But, in case they occur, I have a big box full of GCs, and months worth of CC statements showing payments of 20xx to CVS, to GCC, etc.

It's pretty easy to explain that the MOs were purchased with the GCs that were purchased with the CCs, which at the end of the process are paid by the bank account to which the MOs are deposited.

I have enough record keeping to deal with for my reselling. I don't want to be doing spreadsheets for my GCs, as well.

I mean, really. I went into nursing, not accounting. It's neither my strong suit nor my fun.