Amex Gift Cards - Save Receipts and cards?

[grebel]

I've noticed that many people hold onto their old AGC's, including the receipt, tape them together and toss them in a shoebox.

May I ask why? Once they're zeroed out and you're done with them, why keep em? I generally keep all my receipts, electronically. If there is a good reason for keeping these around, couldn't I just scan everything (including fronts and backs of AGC) and then toss originals.

I abhor keeping unneeded paper around, so I thought I would make sure before I start tossing old AGC.

 

[smittytabb]

I've noticed that many people hold onto their old AGC's, including the receipt, tape them together and toss them in a shoebox.

May I ask why? Once they're zeroed out and you're done with them, why keep em? I generally keep all my receipts, electronically. If there is a good reason for keeping these around, couldn't I just scan everything (including fronts and backs of AGC) and then toss originals.

I abhor keeping unneeded paper around, so I thought I would make sure before I start tossing old AGC.

Well, what if you have a chargeback? Or as happened to my SO, the Target load doesn't work? It says it does, but guess what no money is in your account? I think of all gift cards like credit cards. You just never know if something might come back to it or not. Of course, most likely not. But I am not a fan of throwing away money in the trash can, so I keep them just in case.

 

[grebel]

I hadn't even thought about that. so far, I've used the AGC and the money as posted to my Redcard and I've already used the money to pay creditcard bills, so it seems pretty safe. That being said, I hadn't thought of chargebacks. Maybe its reasonable to hold onto these cards for say 6 months and then safely dispose of them?

 

[pillow25]

I hang onto the cards because at some point, I am going to do some ridiculous craft project with them (i.e. build a mural or something). But, like the other user said, I hang onto the cards and receipts in case anyone needs them. The cards just go into a shoebox. I keep all the receipts and scan them once a month and then recycle the receipts.

 

[MickiSue]

I don't keep them forever. But as smitty said, I wait to be sure that any card I use to load another card actually gets credited.

 

[Brenton]

I hang onto the cards because at some point, I am going to do some ridiculous craft project with them (i.e. build a mural or something). But, like the other user said, I hang onto the cards and receipts in case anyone needs them. The cards just go into a shoebox. I keep all the receipts and scan them once a month and then recycle the receipts.

I'm thinking of a scale model of the White House, or maybe a life-sized treehouse for my kid. Almost there...

 

[Matt S NYC]

My rule is once the money is in my bank account or applied to a bill I can get rid of the original funding source. I don't see a reason to keep the card once you've already got the money.

 

[Hanaleiradio]

A few years ago I weathered a couple of IRS audits, and learned that tax law and IRS determinations offer little protection against an eager IRS auditor. So for all of my MS activity I make sure that I can document the $ trail from initial purchase to final liquidation so that I can prove that all of those deposits don't represent hidden income. At the end of each year I pack up all the GC's, reciepts, deposit slips, etc and store them in a bankers box along with tax returns. Paranoid and overly cautious? Yes! Some life experiences will do that.

 

[smittytabb]

I hang onto the cards because at some point, I am going to do some ridiculous craft project with them (i.e. build a mural or something). But, like the other user said, I hang onto the cards and receipts in case anyone needs them. The cards just go into a shoebox. I keep all the receipts and scan them once a month and then recycle the receipts.

If only a shoebox could hold mine. Mine are overflowing a basket that is about 3 ft. x 3 ft. Symptom of time misspent perhaps. Or well spent depending on how you look at it.

 

[gmenrule]

I keep them by year and type. PayPal in one MO in another serve loads and AGCs with the activity screenshots. It pays to randomly load the AGCs to c if there is a balance and they were used. I buy 10-20k depending on the portals per month so pulling 10-15 3k and 2k cards is worth it to me.

Also the irs think mentions above is real

 

[bigugly]

I'm keeping all of my packaging and receipts for a while.

 

[grebel]

If only a shoebox could hold mine. Mine are overflowing a basket that is about 3 ft. x 3 ft. Symptom of time misspent perhaps. Or well spent depending on how you look at it.

Wow, this is very good to hear! I will definitely be keeping my cards around!

 

[Jason Kusner]

I regularly see $0 Visa and Amex gift cards for sale on ebay. Why do people buy these?

 

[Jacob]

I've pondered this as I grow my collection of empties from 1 to now 2 boxes. At end of 2015, I considered that an appropriate time to "toss" but had some misgivings, .e.g, legal, IRS, past bills disputes, issues with portals. Who knows but to be careful.... Not that I know of any reason but just out of prudence.

I do some level of validation that the card is truly empty. I have made mistakes, e.g., POS events have occurred etc. As I have gotten some more experience I've come to miminize how my double checking each card but I still do some amount. For example, match last four digits of the gift card against the BB receipt.

For my part, I wonder about any sorting method. For now they are stashed into a box but not by type, batch, source of liquidation etc.

Not sure it is worth the effort to sort/categorize them or just a reflection of my compulsive side.

 

[MickiSue]

I haven't had any new Amex GCs in a while (sob). But for any GC, my method is to save the packaging, along with the receipt, and write the last four digits of the card on same.

Once card is used, I wait till I know that it's been safely applied in whatever fashion I used it (the funds are in the account I used it for), and then get rid of both card and papers. I see no use in hanging on to hard copies of things that are, IME, temporary. Use it, verify it, toss it.

It works for me. And I can save my shoeboxes for konmari'ing in my office.

 

[Touristtrap]

I keep my receipts, VGC, AGC etc just in case of an audit. They are separated by months within a calendar year and stored every January.

I plan to get rid of 2013 receipts in 2017.

 

[Touristtrap]

I keep my receipts, VGC, AGC etc just in a case of an audit. They are separated by months within a calendar year and stored every January.

I plan to get rid of 2013 receipts in 2017.

 

[MickiSue]

@Touristtrap: to what purpose? This is a sincere question. In what case will having those available prove anything at all in an audit? If one is not deducting the costs of MSing, then one does not need to demonstrate the costs of MSing.

 

[Domat]

Has there been any reports of someone who got audited that having these details were helpful? I have read one report of some MSer being audited and the auditor didn't care about the MS.

Considering it seems that every possible thing has a datapoint on FT, it is amazing that we have never got one from an audit going bad.

 

[MickiSue]

Exactly. I got audited for four years of business records last summer. That was all they wanted: business records.

 

[Jacob]

Let me add to the mixa different perspective from Audit, i.e.,
Money Laundering. A friend once hinted to me that since MS is akin to money laundering in regard to the overall method and often viewed with suspicion that having the cards somehow provided justification.

I don't see how and I don't understand his point so I am putting it out there for you more seasoned in MS.

 

[MickiSue]

Well, that's his problem right there: MS is NOT akin to money laundering. It's a legal activity, and money laundering is not.

Again, what good does a pile of GCs, receipts, etc do to help in the case of an audit? Assuming that one buys numerous MO's with the GCs, and then deposits into regularly used accounts, the credit card records are a better source of data: you spent $10K on GCs on 5/7, two weeks later, when the GCs arrived, you started buying MOs, and the CC record shows that the 10K was paid off within three weeks.

SEE? Ms Auditor, I have this shoebox full of plastic that proves only that I had a bunch of GCs. That's gonna help, right?

 

[Touristtrap]

@Touristtrap: to what purpose? This is a sincere question. In what case will having those available prove anything at all in an audit? If one is not deducting the costs of MSing, then one does not need to demonstrate the costs of MSing.

When starting MS and reading Flyertalk beginners forum (or even Wiki) someone mentioned that he was questioned about MS and he presented his receipts and explained what was going on.
I would rather have a physical evidence easily stored just in case then assume everything will be alright.
That's just me, maybe little OCD here but better safe than sorry.

P. S. I love this Frankfurt LH lounge.

 

[nickel285]

Well, what if you have a chargeback

In what cases would have to worry about chargebacks? Don't chargebacks occur when the consumer files a dispute with the bank for unauthorized purchases? When would you ever want to disputed your MS purchases?

 

[smittytabb]

In what cases would have to worry about chargebacks? Don't chargebacks occur when the consumer files a dispute with the bank for unauthorized purchases? When would you ever want to disputed your MS purchases?

Not always.

 

[Billiken]

I keep the receipts, only.
Although I do have all my Vanilla Reloads (receipt stapled to each).

If a VGC is used for a MO purchase, once the MO is in-hand, why keep the VGC?

 

[El Ingeniero]

Well, that's his problem right there: MS is NOT akin to money laundering. It's a legal activity, and money laundering is not.

Again, what good does a pile of GCs, receipts, etc do to help in the case of an audit? Assuming that one buys numerous MO's with the GCs, and then deposits into regularly used accounts, the credit card records are a better source of data: you spent $10K on GCs on 5/7, two weeks later, when the GCs arrived, you started buying MOs, and the CC record shows that the 10K was paid off within three weeks.

SEE? Ms Auditor, I have this shoebox full of plastic that proves only that I had a bunch of GCs. That's gonna help, right?

Yeah, we live in MSP, where police and prosecutors have bigger things to worry about than small scale MS.

The absence of positive proof and an accused's big mouth, combined with $100K/month of entirely legal MS behavior can be spun into very ugly and fantastical accusations that will take some fancy lawyering (at a cost well in excess of your benefits from MS) to work your way out of. At the very least, it could turn your life upside down for months. Not to mention, a cop *could* assume based on personal biases and preconceptions, that a $10,000 plus pile of gift cards and money orders on your person are involved in criminal activity, and decide to relieve you of them and send you on your way.

I'd say, keep everything and keep it well organized. I am more into reselling than MS these days, but I still do all my MS in batches, and keep the paper/plastic from each batch together (printouts from online billpays included), so that the entire flow of funds from a gift card purchase would be completely evident to anyone looking through them.

My concern is that prosecutors and police have ample incentives to be willfully blind to exculpatory evidence, and have no incentive beyond their sense of personal integrity to do otherwise. At the end of the day, juries are still predisposed to believe what cops and prosecutors tell them on the stand. There are certain jurisdictions in Wisconsin where I'd hesitate to buy MO with gift cards.

Having gift cards/receipts/deposit slips in hand and well organized, is dispositive proof that you indeed bought gift cards with your CC, cashed them out, deposited the funds, then paid your CC bills with the funds. It makes it much harder to sustain a fantasy of something that isn't there. I don't even use MS accounts for anything but MS, to keep things even simpler.

 

[El Ingeniero]

One more thought: MS isn't money laundering, but MS activity can look a lot like money laundering.

Both J. Random Waiter and J. Random Potdealer have a few hundred in small bills from pursuing their respective trades. Each swings over to CVS, buys a Vanilla Visa and loads it to his Serve card at the Family Dollar next door. They both proceed to use their Serve card to pay utility and phone bills.

J. Random Waiter is not a money launderer, but Mr. Potdealer is, but G-d help Mr. Waiter if he's roommates with Mr. Potdealer.

J. Random ManSpender, has 1/2 dozen Serve cards in his own and several relatives names. He maxes out each of his cards every month with gift cards that he buys legitimately; moreover he buys $60K of MO every month. He also enjoys considerable amounts of weed, so he uses the points to go on a first class/five star vacation for a few days in Colorado. On his flight back, he gets nabbed bringing back a years supply of smokable and edible cannabis in his luggage that he took a cash advance on one of his credit cards to purchase. Will prosecutors consider bringing money laundering charges on top of possession with intent to distribute? Of course, they will. Furthermore, they will attempt to use the MS activity to define the size and scope of his business, never mind they can't prove where the $90K of MS came from; all they need is some loser to claim their good buddy J. Random ManSpender hooked them up for a small consideration (and what weed smoker hasn't helped out a friend in need?) to establish his bona fides as a dealer. A good defense lawyer will have none of it, but odds are that he can't afford one and and furthermore sells himself down the river.

Kafkaesque, but that's the world we live in.