Devaluation of the travel experience

[italdesign]

It was in the comments of a FM article where I saw this perspective:

"I’m a hoarder who uses points for 2 to 3 trips per year. I don’t agree with most bloggers who advocate earn and burn to avoid devaluation. To me, frequent trips would “devalue” the enjoyment of the experience. I would rather suffer a 20% devaluation for a great trip two years from now than take an unnecessary trip today."

There are some caveats with the statement. You might be looking at a 50-100% devaluation in 2 years instead. But in general, I relate to this. It no longer excites me to go to yet another coast with sandy beaches and turquoise ocean, or another developed big city, or to check in/board ahead of everyone else and walk into a spacious lounge with showers (although a spa still turns me on - there is hope yet!). I have done it too many times in recent months.

So I have been thinking, should I do fewer trips? After much pondering, I conclude that I love travel too much to reduce it by any significant amount. However, I identified shortcomings with the way I travel: 1) I repeat the same experience; 2) my trips are too short.

Most of my domestic trips are 2-3 days long (exclusive of flying time). The weekend plus 1-2 days off. This is because I have way more airline miles than hotel points, so I can fly anywhere I want for free but lack the same freedom in lodging, so I get out before I have to pay a noticeable amount to stay. I have been on too many trails, too many scenic drives where I had to turn around because my time was up and I had a flight to catch. Next time I want to keep exploring.

And I go for similar experiences out of convenience. The beaten path is easier to redeem miles for. And so I've walked the beaten paths: Sydney, Melbourne, Bora Bora, Hong Kong, Singapore, Western EU, California. The list goes on. Lovely places, but I get less out of each new place.

So I have 2 goals for this year and beyond: 1) Go to more unique, authentic places; 2) Focus on earning hotel pts so I can afford longer trips - no more smoking room in Motel 6! Now I thirst for new experiences and perspectives - stepping on new soil and off the beaten path (where hotel pts may not have a role, but that's OK). Mix those with common paths and I hope to find the right balance. I so long for the feelings of yearning and wonder, from my early days, when going to the West Coast was a dream to work towards. I may never find that exact feeling again, but I'll do my best to preserve the surviving pieces. This is the sacrifice we make. In exchange, our experience is much enriched.

Thoughts? Reflection?

 

[Matt]

I believe making travel more accessible can devalue it. I think too many people fly a premium product and stay in a chain hotel and never get to really experience many of the joys of travel.

The important caveats with that:

• It doesn't have to devalue it - that is still up to the person who is taking the trip. How often are many aspects of our lives 'devalued' or overlooked through their common nature? That could be the beauty of a flower in your garden, or the time you give to your loved ones.
• I think its easier for older people to 'value' it more than young people. IE I like that you first work hard for something before it becomes easy. If all you know is easy then it is easier to not appreciate it. I say older because there's more probability that an older person would have gone on vacation paying cash in the past 30 years than a younger person.
• There is nothing wrong with flying F to Paris and staying at the Vendome for a week, ordering nothing but a Royale with Cheese, however it is simple a 'different' experience than can be had from doing Paris in other ways.

 

[italdesign]

How often are many aspects of our lives 'devalued' or overlooked through their common nature? That could be the beauty of a flower in your garden, or the time you give to your loved ones.

I'm glad we have 4 seasons here. Spring is great after all the cold. Then it is quickly replaced by the hot and humid summer. Spring is like the cute little baby: you wish time could freeze because it is so good but it quickly grows into something else. Summer is also great at first but gets old quickly with its humidity and heat, at least for me.

How welcome a change is a local bnb after staying in chain hotels for a while. If I didn't have hotel points and if I had more cash, I would stay in bnbs most of the time. But part of the thrill is how much you can get away with for free. Yet another trade off.

 

[Trevor]

I'm glad we have 4 seasons here. Spring is great after all the cold. Then it is quickly replaced by the hot and humid summer. Spring is like the cute little baby: you wish time could freeze because it is so good but it quickly grows into something else. Summer is also great at first but gets old quickly with its humidity and heat, at least for me.

How welcome a change is a local bnb after staying in chain hotels for a while. If I didn't have hotel points and if I had more cash, I would stay in bnbs most of the time. But part of the thrill is how much you can get away with for free. Yet another trade off.

This is a great argument for using Arrival+ or Fideltity 2% CB cards. With those cards you gain flexibility and CAN stay in a BNB without having significant " cash" outlays.

 

[Matt]

This is a great argument for using Arrival+ or Fideltity 2% CB cards. With those cards you gain flexibility and CAN stay in a BNB without having significant " cash" outlays.

That is illogical financially though.. since you CAN stay at a chain hotel for points, you therefore use CB to pay debt/increase savings and arrival for wherever you 'really need' travel that isn't reimbursed.. taxi/uber/subway etc...

In other words, once cash is generated, it is cash, spend it on anything travel related that could otherwise have been achieved via points (shelter need etc) then it is the same as spending from your paycheck.

 

[Haley]

I agree that spending cash back is equal to spending cash earned. There is nothing wrong with spending money on travel if it is something you value.

 

[MickiSue]

OTOH, chain hotels, no matter how cushy are...chain hotels.

I enjoy finding the little places that are off the beaten path. If I can pay for them with A+ points, AND the cash-in value of that is less than or equal to the equivalent in chain points, I win. Even though it's not the Vendome, it's a lovely place to stay.

And, IME, from too many years of business travel, the people who work at those little, offbeat places tend to be more genuinely friendly than those at the four and five star hotels.

I've been looking for places on the Adriatic coast for this fall. If I can stay in a holiday home, and walk to the beach for under 200 euros/week, that saves the hotel points for the big cities, and the A+ points go just that much further.

 

[Matt]

There is nothing wrong with spending money on travel if it is something you value.

There is if you can spend points on it instead, unless you are FIRE'd.

 

[Haley]

There is if you can spend points on it instead, unless you are FIRE'd.

If you aren't shouldnt 100% of your MS go towards earning cash back to get yourself there? That is the logical extension isn't it?

 

[Matt]

If you aren't shouldnt 100% of your MS go towards earning cash back to get yourself there? That is the logical extension isn't it?

Yes. But that doesn't mean you cannot travel via signup bonuses.

 

[MickiSue]

That POV has its validity, but so does that of spending cash back/A+ miles, etc on travel. If one collects the cash back in order to travel, why not? If one prefers NOT to stay at chain hotels, why not?

 

[Matt]

That POV has its validity, but so does that of spending cash back/A+ miles, etc on travel. If one collects the cash back in order to travel, why not? If one prefers NOT to stay at chain hotels, why not?

If you are all set then there's clearly no harm. If you are still in debt... maybe it's an unnecessary luxury to elect this path. Somewhat ironic in that you could be more frugal by staying in a luxury chain than a lower cost B&B..

 

[plane2port]

Chain hotels that you can book for points are great in major cities that you have to fly into to begin your trip. After that I prefer to book something via airbnb or booking.com where I can have a kitchenette. I like to brew my coffee in my pj's while I'm planning the day. Easy enough to pay off with Arrival or god forbid cash (not hard when you're paying 25 euro/night)

 

[Haley]

Isn't the OP saying what do you do once you have used up those free and easy to come by nights?

How many free nights can you get in a year w/sign ups and what do you do after those?

 

[shoppergirl]

This is a great argument for using Arrival+ or Fideltity 2% CB cards. With those cards you gain flexibility and CAN stay in a BNB without having significant " cash" outlays.

Totally agree with you. I enjoy staying in non-chain hotels. I think that's why I love my Arrival card so much. Just so much flexibility!

 

[italdesign]

Isn't the OP saying what do you do once you have used up those free and easy to come by nights?

How many free nights can you get in a year w/sign ups and what do you do after those?

It helps if you have multiple family members applying, and if you are OK with Fairfield Inn, Hyatt Place, Four Points type of places away from city center, in additional to the occasional splurge (I like to use free night certs for those). My goal for this year is to earn enough for 30 nights (I stayed ~50 nights last year). The rest I hope to catch on sale (Orbitz $100 off) and pay cash for the remaining few.

 

[italdesign]

Any other thoughts on the theme of the article - that frequent travel devaluates the travel experience?

 

[Haley]

Any other thoughts on the theme of the article - that frequent travel devaluates the travel experience?

I can not relate at all to the idea of an 'unnessacary' trip. Hoarding is wasteful. Keep points on hand for an emergency, burn the rest.

 

[plane2port]

Any other thoughts on the theme of the article - that frequent travel devaluates the travel experience?

Yes, I find that frequent travel does devalue some aspects of the travel experience. For example, I have been often enough to many large cities, such as Paris and Quito, to which I am not thrilled about returning. However, it does make me focus more on other destinations. If I go back to France, it would be to explore some of the wine-producing areas or the Dordogne Valley.

Frequent travel does not make travel itself less appealing to me. The more I travel, the more I want to travel. It's just the focus that changes.

 

[MickiSue]

I think that the way in which one travels is what devalues it, or not. Traveling to some hot spot for the sake of saying that I've been there has little to no appeal to me. But as the OP is learning, spending time figuring out what is appealing about a destination (or not--that's just as crucial) makes or breaks any trip to anywhere.

I've not been to Paris. But I've been to Rome enough to know which neighborhoods are homey, as opposed to touristy, and which restaurants in those neighborhoods are frequented by the locals.

Before going to Zihuatanejo in Jan, I had researched it enough to know that it, not its neighbor, Ixtapa, was the Mexican destination I was looking for.

So, to make a long comment longer, my belief is that travel, when it speaks to your soul, can never be devalued. If it's travel for the sake of travel, get hired as a consultant. You'll earn tens of thousands of miles without signup bonuses, countless hotel points, and learn to hate it.

 

[Matt]

my belief is that travel, when it speaks to your soul, can never be devalued.

I think the point I was making is that some people might not know what it is to have their soul spoken to.

But the flip side of that is that they might not need to in order to grow.

I think it is very subjective, everyone has their own path, and perhaps the only person you can compare experience with is an older or younger 'you'.

 

[Alpen_Geoff]

Interesting thought process, I can definitely relate but never actually sat down to think about it...From my perspective travelling itself and the ability to explore / learn new locales and cultures hasn't been devalued a bit, if anything our ability to travel more frequently has increased the value of these experiences for me. Being able to learn and contrast various areas that may seem similar from the outside looking in (i.e China/Taiwan, Thailand/Vietnam, Peru/Chile, Caribbean Island X/Caribbean Island Y etc.) increases my desire to learn more and to return to see these places / cultures / customs first hand. The ability to travel more allows us to do this rather than see one side of the discussion then go home and look at other perspectives online.

One thing I've noticed that has changed for me, sadly, is my perception of premium cabin travel. Having only flown in Y a handful of times on short hops in the past couple years some of the excitement and luster definitely wears off...I'm still extremely thankful to be able to fly the way we do but short of new planes (787-9) or innovative seats (EY Apartment) the wow factor has worn off. On the other hand something that hasn't worn off is flight itself, I still love it - maybe even more now - I'm a window seater for life. The world is such a huge and beautiful place and short of being a pilot or professional photographer flying allows for views and perspectives that I could never have otherwise - flying over the north pole, the Himalayas, Grand Canyon, the expanse of the Amazon, where the Tigris and Euphrates join etc. etc.

 

[MickiSue]

I think the point I was making is that some people might not know what it is to have their soul spoken to.

But the flip side of that is that they might not need to in order to grow.

I think it is very subjective, everyone has their own path, and perhaps the only person you can compare experience with is an older or younger 'you'.

I agree, and, at the same time as I know you are probably right, I grieve for the thought that some people are so unfamiliar with what they really need from their lives.

 

[Matt]

I agree, and, at the same time as I know you are probably right, I grieve for the thought that some people are so unfamiliar with what they really need from their lives.

Yeah.. but then again, every year I look back and think what an idiot I was then.

 

[MickiSue]

LOL, when you get to my age, you realize that idiocy is a permanent condition, alleviated only by the occasional flash of brilliance.

 

[italdesign]

Another unrelated devaluation of the travel experience has been caused, in large part, by China's rise, which empowered literally hundreds of millions of people to travel a lot more than before. Nowadays it's hard to find any moderately popular destination that isn't overrun by Chinese tour groups. It's not just China that has more money now, and popular destinations have always been crowded at peak season regardless, but it has added (substantially) to the problem. Nowhere is this problem more pronounced than in China itself. The overcrowding and commercialization of what is supposed to be serene and holy places all over the world really kills the experience - another reason to get off the beaten path.

I'm sure somewhere in the world a wealthy businessman is cursing us for the same reason. "Those classless Walmart goers sit in my first class cabin, drinking my krug. On my last flight they ran out of lobster because they got it first."

 

[italdesign]

so I thought of this topic again. It is a bit sad to revisit a former favorite destination, only to find you have "outgrown" it and don't really enjoy it anymore. And places that once seemed amazing, today you may not even give it a second look if you saw it for the first time, b/c you have seen much more beautiful things. But, those are the consequences of frequent travel. I still have the fond memories, just can't replicate it. Now I'm out there creating new ones.

 

[smittytabb]

so I thought of this topic again. It is a bit sad to revisit a former favorite destination, only to find you have "outgrown" it and don't really enjoy it anymore. And places that once seemed amazing, today you may not even give it a second look if you saw it for the first time, b/c you have seen much more beautiful things. But, those are the consequences of frequent travel. I still have the fond memories, just can't replicate it. Now I'm out there creating new ones.

I just don't have this at all. I go back to places I have been before and see them through a new lens in a new way. I guess I just have a different perspective on this. I also have traveled in varying styles throughout my life. The luxury travel was decades after many, many stays in hostels and pensions and traveling in coach for most of my life. But I still enjoy the edgy destinations where the accommodations are not luxurious and I have given up my business seat for a cash payment on overbooked flights. So, to me it is about the destination and every place has so many choices, how could I not find one that gave me joy? What you are describing is not necessarily the consequences of frequent travel, as it is not universal.

 

[italdesign]

Right, I see things thru a new lens. Sometimes it works better than before, sometimes not. What I described above is the latter, which I experienced recently. But certainly there are new found beauty as well.

 

[redbirdsj]

OP - I recommend reading the book "Vagabonding" by Rolf Potts. It's partially a lifestyle book but also has a very interesting perspective on traveling.

 

[italdesign]

sounds interesting @redbirdsj.

I cringe when I reread some of my original posts though. My perspective has already changed since March. I am going to make some edits.

[edit] I decided not to make edits after all. Let the state of mind be frozen in history.

 

[smittytabb]

OP - I recommend reading the book "Vagabonding" by Rolf Potts. It's partially a lifestyle book but also has a very interesting perspective on traveling.

That one I have on my shelf. Read it several years ago. Another interesting perspective is "The Art of Travel" by Alain de Botton. There is a quote in there that I love, which reminds me it is not really the destination so much as the mindset we bring to it.

“The pleasure we derive from journeys is perhaps dependent more on the mindset with which we travel than on the destination we travel to.”
― Alain de Botton, The Art of Travel

 

[ukinny2000]

“The pleasure we derive from journeys is perhaps dependent more on the mindset with which we travel than on the destination we travel to.”
― Alain de Botton, The Art of Travel

This is one of the few books that has survived the perennial shelf-recycling that I do!

For me, points has enabled me to make serious headway into fulfilling (and in the process expand) a bucket list of experiences to be enjoyed around the world based on unique events/sights/hotels/foods, thus the trips are always new and fresh and I never find myself jaded about the destinations.

 

[italdesign]

I agree with that quote.

My point before was that I don't enjoy things the same way as before. The problem is I failed to adjust my expectation. I wanted to enjoy it the same way as before, but I couldn't due to the fact that I have changed (and it changed too, but secondarily). And these changes mean some places no longer fit into my travel goal. It may sound obvious, but I didn't really think about it until now. More reflection is needed...

 

[italdesign]

For me, points has enabled me to make serious headway into fulfilling (and in the process expand) a bucket list of experiences to be enjoyed around the world based on unique events/sights/hotels/foods, thus the trips are always new and fresh and I never find myself jaded about the destinations.

That's pretty much where I'm at right now (contrary to my depressing OP). I just finished a few trips that significantly enriched my experience, and the bucket list keeps growing with stuff I never knew existed. Planning to knock out a few next year. I'm glad I took my own advice to broaden my horizon (set out in the OP). Now the challenge is just to come to terms with the person I've become, and to let go of what needs to be let go.