I raised this question in the forum recently when a deal came across my table from a very nice member of the MS community. He had just found something that was somewhat new, and pushed through his first trial payment. I decided to try this myself too, as it was a simple $18K transaction (random amount I select based on credit line) at 2x which means $360 in a click or three. It’s a $25K deal per transaction, and as with all bank deals has a daisy chain potential.
Long story short, it is a bank account. I outline bank account gigs in Bootcamp. They are really good because of their PJ factor ( you can sit around in your PJs and make money, very handy for stay at home types) and because of their lack of fees. Bank account gigs really leverage 2% cards, as fees from gift cards/money orders etc often make using these channels less attractive.
The quandry
We had discussed testing it out ourselves and once it ‘works’ sharing it further. However this is a deal that I know will die. We both received calls from the Bank asking us for more information (DL scans etc) my call asked for things like employer information. The account is pending now but should fund at some point. Note there is a risk here that the process will take longer than a cycle to complete, so the amount of funding must be floatable.
Because of the high touch response from the bank it is clear they are manually approving. That means if they get 50 billion applications (my daily pageviews when I release a deal), sooner or later (sooner) they will get savvy and shut it down. It is only my opinion, but I think that its very likely that sharing it will kill it.
Therefore, what does one do? If we do not share it then it doesn’t die. But there is no point in it living if nobody is leveraging it. Somewhat like the tree falling in the forest concept. If one shares it, it dies. One solution is to ‘share it with those you trust’. But the funny thing is that an alarming number of people start reminding you how trustworthy they are when this happens..
Bigger picture, it leads me to thoughts of people who out deals for pageviews. If the deal will die regardless does it really matter? I hear a lot of ‘community’ and ‘steward’ talk around these topics, but I also wonder if that is just a line used by people who don’t want to share, such as those who intentionally bury good information on Flyertalk, or lie about things to ‘scare away’ other people.
What would you do?
Please no emails or PMs about the name of the bank. It is not my gig to share. I work on an honor system, and if someone shares something with me I don’t post it. I’m just working through some thoughts on the topic in this post.
Well now people are on the prowl knowing that this exists. It’s the beginning of the end just by posting the idea that it exists.
If this is an ethical dilemma then just don’t share. I see lots of bloggers deal with similar dilemmas while others don’t deal with them as for them it’s not an issue so they post and kill the deal.
Everyone should be on the prowl- there are hundreds of these deals.
Only blog about it once it dies. Keep it a secret for now. Sell it to a select few people you know =)
So often with MS, our actions remind me of the Tragedy of the Commons. There are plenty of good deals out there to be found and utilized… you don’t need to overexpose and kill every last one of them.
Don’t share it.
You answered your own question whether to discuss or not.
You make a vague blog post to generate clicks and user engagement but never reveal any details…
I haven’t answered the question, I raise my concerns with the notion and asked for input. What is wrong with user engagement, or clicks for that matter?
I’m not saying there is anything wrong with either….
I’m just saying you answered your question “Therefore, what does one do?”
One writes a vague blog post to generate clicks and entice user engagement, without offering details. This lures people to the forums so that they can try to get in on the secret, it makes it seem that a carrot is being dangled in front of them without drawing the ire of others for “outing a deal”, and it creates the impression that this is the place to come to for juicy tidbits.
No judgment being passed. Just an observation.
It’s not outed in the forum either. I think you maybe read too much into it. I just wanted to ask a different group of readers for input as this (which is engagement) is helpful.
Your comments are spot on. This is just playing both sides of the fence. Not too much info, but just enough to get some benefits.
If discussion is a benefit then I’m guilty of seeking it.
Agree 1000%. What one should never do is post nonsense clickbait like this.
One shouldn’t post questions on how to do things? What should one post Tom?
While I would love to know the bank, my vote is to not expose given the data you have noted. I think you have done the sharing you need to do already by reminding people that these opportunities are out there and if they are willing to put the time in and “earn” it they too could find the deal, or potentially find many other similar deals.
I have no skin in the game, but don’t share it.
Here’s an example of what happened last time someone shared something like this publically.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1261242/
It took some people almost a month to get their money back and they may actually come back and shut your account down.
What would I do?
The most valuable thing for all involved would be to use this example to teach people to discover and validate this *type* of deal for themselves.
For example:
Tips and tricks for Google search techniques used to identify this bank, and others like them.
Markings for when funding is going to be treated as a cash advance.
Methods for determining limits without expensive mistakes.
Share it with me!
I know it’s a tough call, I’ve had people brush me off several times when I PM them for tips or help. Perhaps it’s better to just share it with those faithful readers that have PM’d you for the information?
I’m not sharing it with anyone – it isn’t mine to share. But will discuss thoughts on how to share it with the person who shared it with me based on these discussions.
The answer to your question is this thread, which, I think, was the impetus for that bank gig thread:
https://saverocity.com/forum/threads/new-one-time-opportunity-for-generating-miles.75884/
I ask a similar question in that thread, but there isn’t an answer yet.
What I meant was the demise of that deal should answer your question.
Ok so are you saying no deals should be shared because it kills them?
You’re doing it right, Matt.
Otherwise, I can just see it on the bowtie:
How to get UNLIMITED miles!
Sign up for an account at Bank X and make your opening deposit with card Y. Your deposit can be as much as your credit limit! Pay off the card, close your account, and do it again! Voila – unlimited miles so you can get BIG travel with small money!
Emily and I don’t earn a commission for this but we always tell you about the best deals!
*HT Matt at Saverocity
You coined the term “steward” Matt! 🙂 jk. I think you don’t need to worry about leveraging the deal by sharing (not that you were going to) because if it exists then people have found it. So somebody is benefiting regardless of whether it is being shared or not.
Actually MM coined it- I ran with it 🙂
I think the answer is that there isn’t one answer that fits every single situation.
But if the gig is fragile, or likely to be, the answer is a definite “No.” Because what is the point of sharing something with 1000 people, even, when after 50, 100 of them jump on it, it gets shut down for the rest?
They’ll just go away cranky, angry at you for what looks to them like a pageview grab with no upside to them. And the person(s) who spent their actual time researching in order to find that particular gig will feel betrayed, because you gave away their hard work without their permission.
Nobody wins, not even the blogger. Which, IMO, is as it should be.
To be clear- I am not saying I would give up someone else’s work at all. In this case we discussed sharing it with a wider group after we tested it.
Thanks for the clarifier–I hadn’t been clear on that.
OK, so everything but the originator of the gig getting mad still stands. 😉
Matt March 12, 2015, 2:19 pm
Ok so are you saying no deals should be shared because it kills them?
Not at all. Deals such as these should not be shared publicly. They will die in a day or 2 and NO ONE besides the very first handful will gain anything.
Do you really believe it beneficial to share when NO ONE will benefit?
If you read my post you’ll see that I don’t want to share widely because it will kill them, but how to share in a better way? I’m asking for ideas to get around the problem.
It’s a tough call.
I will say, however, if the thought of sharing comes up, just think of it ending any moment after that due to high volume. If there was a way to slowly pick up the pace so that the bank doesn’t see a LARGE amount of volume because that’s usually how things get shut down, they see the unexpected volume and know something is not right.
If you don’t share it, doesn’t mean the deal won’t end. I mean, they could cap the amount any time. Restrict to just local customer to open accounts, etc. There are a lot of variables.
Again, tough call. I believe if you do have a very small group of people you know that you trust which won’t abuse the system, I would say okay to that.
Jay
I trust your judgment, Matt — especially if it seems clear that an additional swarm would close the doors.
These bank gigs should never be exposed as they then die quickly. Let those that will find them and PM them.
If an opportunity will die within a few days after word gets out then I think it might be best to leave the deal for others to discover on their own. These small banks and credit union deals can last for years if they are not abused or publicized. Others can find them if they look. Perhaps share and explain the deal after it dies, maybe write a review of it to show people the kind of things to look for and what the possibilities are. Other than that, I don’t know how a person can share without killing a fragile deal other than to just tell a few acquaintances.
The answer lies within an old saying:
‘Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.’
Maimonides
It seems most flock to the one that divulges all, only to realize deals die before they can get in on them. Then they wander to flyer talk and are buried in countless posts where trolls and flamers lie await to waiting admonish any who dare ask for any useful information using phrases like ‘do the work yourself.’ These same people are fed information in different ways, but I digress.
The missing space in all of this is the blogger who can provide the tools to ‘do the work.’ How does one search through the haystack to find the proverbial needle? The Mr. Miyagi of the blogosphere. Now show me ‘Paint the fence’
Paradox,
With the greatest of respect to all those who want to be taught how to fish, but, seriously? There is nothing magical, otherworldly, or mystical about those who find deals. What they do is spend time on google, on foot, keeping their eyes open, and taking real chances with their own money. There, I just revealed the great big secrets to finding deals. The problem is people are either too lazy, or too risk-adverse to try things. So when people say, “show me how to fish,” what they are really saying is, “I want to appear as if I am eager to learn, but I would rather you just show me the crane kick,” otherwise they would actually go out and learn how to fish themselves
Matt, if you share publicly in any capacity, no doubt the masses will find out. In this case, consider the deal done. This is one you may need to keep between the two parties. Tough position. I can’t think of a way to “share in a better way”. Maybe just your closest inner circle. Good luck.
I think the big problem is that there is so much greed. People often abuse the system too much and that’s why the opportunities dry out. There is nothing wrong with getting some, but some greedy people would try to get all. Don’t share it here, only share it with people you know is not sick with greed.
wait until it clears for you and your buddy. If it is fragile you can’t publish it or it will die. There is a group on FlyerTalk that PM a select number of users deals that require finesse or self restraint…pigs eat, hogs get slaughtered….so instead of posting it to the general masses who don’t give a darn as long as they get theirs, post it to a few people who will keep it alive and then share it with others when they are done in the same manner. That way you have the best of both ideals, you keep the deal alive and share it to likeminded stewards.
Just make up your mind and don’t put up posts like this any further. Luring posts like this … Which do nothing more than create traffic and take up readers’ time … make me think less of your forums and website.
Think what you will. I’m not posting deals on my blog so you can stop reading and save yourself time. I’ll eat the traffic hit.
Is it a Jewish bank?
I spend three hours trying to find the link or the name of the bank-unsuccessful. Gave up.
As much as I want to know the name of the bank. I would urge you not to share it. My reasoning is this. Like so many others I am new to the MS game because of the RedBird card. I know I am going to make mistakes no matter how hard I try not too. I think about how difficult it would be for me if I had 25k tied up for many months because of a shutdown. The problem I see in with many people new to this hobby is the feeling it will never happen to them. You are doing a service to your readers by not telling them. You are saving people from getting hurt that cant afford the gamble.
Nothing kills like success. The Target Prepaid (Amex) REDcard (i.e. Redbird) is a prime example of this. It’s nice because of the Amex bill pay feature, so MS from CC’s deposited to this account can be paid on the mortgage, checks to myself, etc. When it first came out, it was only in selected states. But once you got one, you could load it from CC’s at most Target locations. As of March 1, my local Target store no longer allows reloads. The store 20 miles away still does… but for how long, Spock… for… how… long?
“Wisdom comes from a multitude of counsellors”. Matt, I applaud your humility to seek the opinions of others. All in all, your inner voice will let you know what’s right. You’re in a tough spot though. Either way you’ll have upset folks. Whatever you decide to post, I am one of your supporters.
Blogging tends to make us feel as if we’re failing our duties as a blogger to keep secrets and that is an illusion bloggers must overcome in order to have good balance. If we know a deal is fragile we should obligate ourselves not to kill it by ultimately realizing deals can and are found without blogs. Realizing this fact, we release ourselves from any burden we tend to place upon ourselves. We remove the illusion that others can’t find this deal without us and come to realize that the deal can be found out and has been found out by the amount of people the deal can handle. Anymore people getting involved in it beyond the few that will learn of it without blogs are what will kill the deal. Some ms methods only survive because they cannot handle anymore people then the few that find it on their own. Therefore, the blogger releases himself from the thought that they must share it. In fact, they then consider the deal is dead to the public and in that they become properly balanced, a wise stewart, since if the public is informed then the deal would die.