Depending on which blogs you read, you might be committing crimes, or not, in the pursuit of points. But in either case does that actually matter if you get detained?
An important consideration for the masses who are swarming into the land of manufactured spending is that the exact same event can create different outcomes. This is what they call ‘YMMV’ (your mileage may vary). When it comes to a retention offer on a credit card, you might want to ‘HUCA’ (hang up, call again) but when it comes to being detained, do you have the knowledge and ability to HUCA?
For me, I would correlate a HUCA when detained to demand a lawyer. That changes the dynamic of the person you are talking to, as you drop one surly agent (the officer) and communicate with someone more favorable (your lawyer). But would you do that, or would you try to defend yourself because you are innocent? Funnily, if you listen to some blogs, you might think you are innocent, but really are guilty of a Federal crime, which we could all chuckle about in a guest post later on.
Just imagine, for a moment, if you were detained in Walmart, as happened to Tahsir last night, and you explained that you were liquidating $40K of gift cards in structured transactions to avoid reporting requirements, because you read about it on a blog and that blogger seemed really nice (for a girl) and helpful.
But let’s go a step further. What if you only did $2,000 per month in money orders due to your float level, and committed no crimes. You were walked to an office, by a cop and a special agent for the IRS and your boss, or a key client walked by, they kept you there for questioning for an hour, and let you go.
Could you explain yourself the next day? Would it even matter if you could? It’s really important to consider how emulating those you read about can cause huge damage to your life. Whether it be to commit a crime, or whether you are doing things legally, but just appear sketchy. When it comes to someone like Tahsir he isn’t committing crimes, and what is more, it wouldn’t matter to his boss if he appeared sketchy because he doesn’t have a boss. The situation, holistically is very different.
A lot of people don’t think about this when they try to copy bloggers who fly in first class, and a lot of bloggers don’t really care if you appear sketchy, get fired, or go to prison. Don’t forget, they often exist to sell you a credit card, and what you do with it is up to you. YMMV.
Please, don’t commit crimes, and don’t bury your head in the sand in the pursuit of points. You can get plenty of them without crossing lines.
Tahsir obviously has the cool head to handle this stuff (see also getting his car stolen while being rented out). I’m not cool enough to do $20K in MOs at one store, and I would definitely be shook up by a visit from a police officer and an IRS agent. At least I don’t have a boss. But I do have two little kids at home who I’d be thinking about a lot. A lot of us get lucky over and over again, or maybe fail to get unlucky, rather.
To me the most important part of that story is that the police being called stemmed from a random employee not even involved in the transaction feeling slighted and going on a power trip.
No different from a cop or special agent. That’s the problem with those who think it’s ok to do things that are legal- they still may need to prove that fact. It’s all about the overzealous person.
Exactly. It can be something completely random or unintentional that causes someone to zero in on you. If that person is on a power trip, and especially if they actually have some power, it could be a pretty unpleasant situation.
TBB Worthy, well said!
You are welcome for the amazing bump up to your Alexa ranking #’s 🙂
I’ll prepare for the onslaught by writing a beginners guide.
Seems like an assumption that he “isnt doing something illegal”. Unless you know exactly what he is doing, arent you just guessing at whether it is legal or not.
I know exactly what he is doing.
It’s true. Matt has my whereabouts at all times and I actually text him every 16 seconds with an update of exactly what im doing. It’s weird but that’s how our friendship works.
We use aol messenger
It kind of puts a damper on our business relationship though. Pausing every 16 seconds gets to be a drag
I’ve told you before that I’d be happy to sit at home in my underpants and snapchat 24/7, but you didn’t seem keen.
Here he goes again Matt! Complaining of something he full well knew before signing the contracts. I’m fairly certain the Matt every 16 seconds thing was non negotiable.
I’m always flexible, I just like to know where you guys are. I could probably go 20 seconds without it being ‘too much’ of an issue. If I had to that is. Not that I should, I think it’s not to much to ask really.
Well said in the last sentence. I just started all this in the last 6 months, and for a while based on all the blogs and posts on forums I thought that pushing the envelope is what I was supposed to do. The demise of Serve has actually helped me see that I can still get many points/miles without MSing as hard as I possibly can. You can still travel hack without gift cards!
What did I miss here?
Cops. IRS agents.
Detentions (by the way it’s likely legally an arrest).
The ONLY answer is : I’m invoking my right to counsel.
The ONLY question is: Am I free to go?
Ah, now that I have read the story:
I have a 37- year federal criminal defense attorney in Texas who fully understands what you are doing . I’ve been through the statutes and case law with him, and you DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU THINK YOU UNDERSTAND.
If you want the risk explained to you, it will start with NEVER TALK TO THE GOVERNMENT. But, then, since it’s all about you, and your certainties take precedence over the law , keep yapping after you’ve been told you are being detained. What happened is called an ,”arrest” whether handcuffs were employed, they later let you go, didn’t file a police report, etc. IT WAS AN ARREST. PERIOD.
Or, just keep believing you are sure you know what you’re talking about. Explaining “things” to the police and IRS is always a smart move.
Tahsir’s actions were just stupid.
Absolutely agree. Staggering amount of stupidity by this kid.
Absolutely staggering. I agree with you guys. Especially you John. He needs to hang around more people accustomed to the LAW.
So what you’re saying is that when he goes for his Global Entry interview or fills out a job application he has to check “yes” on the box that asks if he’s ever been arrested?
Gimme a break.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop chirping about arrests and detentions. You aren’t a lawyer and it’s painfully obvious to real live lawyers that you’re regurgitating some key phrases that you think make you look smart but that you have no idea the concepts you are trying to convey.
He is a smart kid. There’s an old saying by cops, “You may beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride”. That means that had he been an a-hole he’d could have been arrested for POP. P-ing off Police. You know, like a REAL ARREST. One that includes a DPS record that pops up during a background check and requires a real lawyer to make it go away. He beat the ride and the rap because he was doing nothing wrong and he cooperated with LE.
Now que the non-lawyer to tell the real lawyer how stupid she is despite handling thousands of criminal cases and how stupid Tahsir was for acting reasonable because he knew he was doing nothing illegal.
It wasn’t an arrest but to the untrained eye it can look the same. Look up reasonable suspicion and detain versus probable cause and arrest. It all starts with Terry v. Ohio 392 US 1 (1968).
Lindy,
You are not stupid, however you are giving bad advice.
Everyone has their own theory on Terry v Ohio’s reasonable suspicion a crime was, is being or will be committed.
Over at Travel Codex I think it’s 2-1 or 3-1 that it’s not an arrest.
Lindy, as a lawyer you know plenty of arrests never get recorded because the person arrested is let go:
Example : Actual case. In a bad neighborhood, a black guy sees a cop . He eyeballs him. Then he starts running. The cop chases him down and handcuffs him to question him. Arrest? BOOM, yes, surprisingly. I believe it was in NY.
The question becomes , “How do you question the person without handcuffing him to stop him? In the words of a very good CDL, “That’s not my problem.” He’s right, it’s a law enforcement problem.