Stewardship is a phrase that upset some people yesterday, so I thought to explain the reasons for it again here. I believe that you need to know your basics before you learn advanced technique. This is true in anything. In martial arts you can’t perform complex strikes and throws until you understand your own balance points and structure. In finance, you cannot understand the risks of derivatives until you understand the underlying product and its own micro and macro influences. You simply cannot run before you can walk. Well, safely that is.
After a while, when you have internalized the basics you can absolutely be spoonfed. Once you have an underlying assessment system in place, and can cross check the new ‘gig’ against that. The reason that I don’t like people being spoonfed advanced deals on a wide scale is that there is no care shown to them to see if they are in that position or not. Allowing a complete beginner to run wild with a new gig is like handing the keys to your Ferrari to your teenage son. Not only is he likely to ruin the car, but also he could harm himself. Stewardship, a term that seemed to offend people yesterday, is the mindset that says they actually care about their son, and they actually care about the Ferrari, though arguably many care more about the Ferrari in this analogy.
Show something useful
This was the expectation from yesterday from some. Funnily, Western culture is that people want something they can pick up for a buck. ‘Drive through’ culture. I can certainly tell you what to do, but if you don’t actually study yourself you can’t do it. I can tell you (and show you) how to throw someone twice your size onto the floor with some swanky maneuver, but unless you drill it for thousands of times you’ll be unlikely to be able to do it effectively. Stewardship doesn’t mean not telling you because the information is so powerful, indeed, I think you should have all the information that you can to make a decision. But I can show you all day long, and if all you care about is the fancy gig, you’ll likely get yourself in a whole lot of trouble.
Before we go into this.. the blogger is often aware of risks that aren’t in a post
99% of bloggers will rip a gig from a Forum. When you read about such gigs, you will frequently see a lot of FAQs. In order for the Blogger to get the FAQ they copy and paste from Wikis created on FlyerTalk; ok maybe they reword a line or two….
Two interesting omissions from the FAQ that was spoonfed this week on AP, yet appear on Flyertalk are:
- Can you get shutdown? Yes.
- How do you get shutdown? No one knows. Anecdotes are found throughout the thread. Some suspicious behavior that MIGHT get your AP account(s) shut down is listed below.
What is missing from the Flyertalk Wiki is:
- What happens to your money when you get shut down?
This is what I call a ‘flash point’ in the process. I’m absolutely onboard with new folk using AP and am not trying to keep it all to myself. But here you have a complete beginner who was told by a blogger they love and trust that they can do this – but there is no talk of Shutdowns! What happens when this occurs? Because someone received information neatly packaged it comes with an expectation of working seamlessly.
It would now be perfectly within the new guys ‘rights’ to call up AP, and tell them “The Points Guy said I could do this”, and there was no talk of risk, and demand their money back. When people are acting within their ‘rights’ like this they don’t have a care in the world for the impact or fallout. If you look inside the world of the guys who are right on the edge of this stuff you will see a completely different mindset. Sure, some of it is scaly and involves shoving away new folks, and that is something I disagree with. But at the heart of it are people who want to keep the gig alive. The difference comes into play when they then interact with customer support – because they want to not risk the deal they go about achieving the needed result with an eye on this. It is very different from an entitled approach. However, there are times when you do have to put your foot down and know when you are in a bad gig too. The nuances of this are hard to be taught vs learn for yourself (and as part of a community to share ideas, risks and rewards on).
This is the reason I am against spoonfeeding – it isn’t that you get 1000 more people into the game, it is that I believe (and I could be very wrong) that a high number of these will not know the risks; or possess the skills or desire to resolve problems other than in their own best interests.
Lemming Syndrome doesn’t cut it
The excuse I most hear is that ‘oh that’s not really a secret because X posted it a year ago’. That doesn’t change anything on the above – each and every time that something gets posted without proper warning, another person is likely to call in and screw the pooch. It’s all about buy in and investment to the opportunity. I do firmly believe you can buy into the framework, and methodology to the game in general, and then you can plug a new gig in on the top of that.
Stewardship, as I understand it and want to perform it is not to restrict access, be mean, rude or exclusionary. It is to ensure that if someone is going to get involved in this game they have the skills and knowledge necessary to protect themselves, and keep the game alive. Like anything, there are good stewards and bad, there are people who know nothing other than what they copied from a forum and then claim ‘ownership’ of it over all others, its all a load of poppycock. Likewise, there are good bloggers and bad. Many will share very useful information, and most people who started in the game in the last few years started out with The Points Guy and Million Mile Secrets – so let’s not forget that they helped us out either. I’d love to see a bit more focus on the risks from those guys, but they are running businesses and who am I to judge how they should do that?
My next post will be an outline of how I approach a new gig, hopefully it will help work on the foundation better. I’m far from an expert at Manufactured Spend, but I do know when I find a deal that makes sense to me or not. Not everyone needs this, but I’m certain that there are too many people out there now trying to send $1000 via AP that haven’t a clue about the risk, and might well not be able to float the $1000 until it is released.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/external-miles-points-resources/1598988-miles-professor-deletes-post-mall-vgc.html#post23287670
I am not “upset” about the term, I am more or less amused by it. Here is why:
Every person in this whole game (bloggers or just old timers who do not blog) are doing it purely out of their self-interest. There is no such thing as “common good” here. And the self-interest of the blogging business is in direct conflict of those “old timers” because it’s in blogger’s inherit interest to broadcast the “secrete” to attract as many readers as possible in order to gain the lucrative affiliate bonuses when reader sign up for credit card offerings. This is much easier than doing the leg works of going to Walmart and CVS trip after trip. After all, once you post something unique and useful to thousands of noobs, you can still racking in cold hard cash while you sleeping. How efficient is that!
It is in “old timer’s” inherit interest to keep all secret to as few people as possible so that they can continue their games and get all the freebies. So bloggers by design is in direct conflict to non-bloggers.
A term like “stewardship” to me is bond to fail. It’s essentially a call to self-police among bloggers to reduce their exposure and intern to limit their own income potentials. Do you honestly believe that’s going to happen?
In this post I ask people to realize that bloggers are businesses and will do what they like. I also ask that we show respect to them on the human level if possible.
I then add that Stewardship of this isn’t begging bloggers to self police, but in my case here how I could offer value by trying to focus on the risks/grass roots level. The irony is that if you have a willing newbie, you can get them from dangerous to themselves, to offering new ‘secrets’ in a month or less. It’s really not rocket science.
I do agree asking bloggers to not post is not going to work, but some can and will. I could have written those same posts (and might have back in the day) but I opted to not put links into the body of a post and make mine more of a tip jar concept, but one where you wouldn’t get a complete newbie signing up and getting their funds locked/in float trouble and perhaps in debt, because it is that much harder to get the smooth conversion here, which is: = profit
I also am hearing more and more that the very word Stewardship is annoying people because it seems pompous, and I can see that. I hope explaining what it meant to me would alleviate somewhat, but who knows..
Youre kidding. People dont like the term stewardship now?
What, its not PC or something?
Ok here’s a better term:
People/FTers/bloggers should treat MS with better “dont be a fffing sh*theadness, and just use commonsense ness”
How’s that?
That’s catchy – I think we should have run with that from the start..
Ooh, can we get t-shirts?
I feel like I want to tell a “When I was young” story. But “not sharing” wasnt always the case. Years ago we used to share everything openly on FT. I think it was because FT was still relatively small and hard to navigate. So unless you were really into earning miles it seemed like a nerds paradise in there. I think once the blogs started to jump into the fray of explaining things thats when people started to form smaller groups of people they met on FT and other forums.
So what you are saying MU, is that we aint changed. Lord no, we caynt change.
We been doing the same things for years. AND have helped many people do it too. But then these blogger type bozos came along and BOOM, everything is too crowded, too fast to die and too many people are asking for handouts without doin what we was doin since like day one?
Yes, Ed, I want T shirts. I was in Greece in July and this guy was walking past us with a T shirt on and in bold letters it said, NOBODY READS YOUR F*CKING BLOG! cept the U was in there.
hahaha
Yes, Matt, you are exactly right on this issue. It’s only been two years that I’ve been MSing. When I first started, I was very careful to read, and took the time to figure out what they heck they were discussing on Flyertalk. I was cautious and still only do moderate MSing. Then, I jumped on a few deals that quickly ended, and learned a lesson. As much as I want to learn and scale up, I certainly don’t want it posted step-by-step in a blog post. I think it’s really important that people start small, then learn on their own.
I read a lot of information, blogs etc about this game. I do not believe/think there is not any malice with the use of the word stewardship but people are foolish to think that words as well as images do not have a powerful effect on the psyche of individuals. Think the things you might have said in anger you would like to take back. Imges are powerful. The imagein is this post is a the master (dog owner) standing over is sitting dog in a cageor behind a gate wating for its master.
I post and provide what I feel is food for thought. Anyone should do with it what they wish, think it’s bullshit, reflect on it, think I am some right wing nut ( I am not), even maybe think I have a point. I am ok with it all as in any debate as long as we go after the arguement with relavant data points and not the individuals.
I have no dog on this fight and except for reading blogs I do not know any of the individuals. I do really enjoy this blog and forum and hope any thing I post is taken in the spirit it is written.
I like the term “stewardship.” I think we need more stewardship in our lives. It reminds me that others came before and others will come after; that the profit motive should not be the main driver or goal of all our activities.
I want my kids and their kids to have enough water. When I learned how many hundreds of gallons of water it takes to produce the cotton for one t-shirt, I consciously bought fewer new ones at my favorite stores, and found more perfectly fine, gently-used ones at vintage and second hand stores. I appreciate the stewardship provided by companies like the upcycler Looptworks – they have been busy lately turning used leather from old Southwest Airlines seats into clothing, shoes, soccer balls and backpacks for African communities. What we do impacts others. We can be good stewards or we can be selfish.
So every time I see the word “stewardship” related to MS I am reminded of the other areas that need stewardship.
As for sharing deals, and doing so in ways to help newbies not shoot themselves in the foot or ruin it for the community – well, I do think that both can be done in a responsible way without blasting it all over the popular blogs. I have only been doing this for about 20 months, but in that time I have made many connections, both online and in person, that enable me to share deals quietly; helping when I can and learning from others who know more. I too spent lots of time reading FT and the popular blogs as I ramped up my knowledge base, but now I learn the most from semi-private and private forums as well as through the personal contacts I have developed.
I wouldn’t advise someone to spend months deciphering obscure MS methods on FT. Read there, sure, and do your own due diligence, but become part of a smaller community. How? Comment on blogs you respect. Email or PM folks you “meet” in the comments or on forums. Go to a meetup in your local area or a DO in your region. It is in smaller communities that real stewardship can happen. It is there that we can mentor and be mentored.
Sorry to sound so preachy. But I do mean what I say quite sincerely.
Oops, no need to be anonymous – “E” is actually me posting too fast 😉 !
I think of Star Trek, or perhaps Mork and Mindy, when I hear the term Steward! Whether its a good term or a dumbass term, I like the meaning advanced for the term by it’s proponent.
Nano Nano….
@Elaine and others …..The beautiful thing about an open discussion ( and everywhere in life) is that sometimes reasonable people disagree.
You thoughts/feelings are well written and not preachy at all.
John
Yep, I enjoy all the comments here, and I don’t think we all need to agree by a long shot. I do listen and adjust my thinking based on what I see, so thanks for sharing all the viewpoints, whether inline with mine or against it.
Well, I can appreciate your point of view even if I do not entirely agree with it.
The attitude that you espouse seems very paternalistic. I really don’t want this to devolve into a political discussion, but it reminds me of those in government, in favor of big government, wanting government to do things for “the people”. I prefer an attitude of self reliance and personal responsibility. Same with MS. I appreciate bloggers, and others, sharing information. Whether or not I act upon it is my decision and I accept the responsibility for the actions and potential consequences.
Having said that, I appreciate your view and educating people, rather than withholding information and techniques, should satisfy whatever qualms you and others might have and share.
Well, the thing with that model (in my opinion) is that it fails on several levels: for one. ultimately, the blogs are frequently looking out for their readers, and then really, once you open a deal up to widely you let in the people who feel entitled to it working the way you explained it, and who don’t care about trying to nurture it as they fix problems.
If you had a blog that shared deals without the desire to convert readers, and if the readers were all reasonably savvy, then that model works fine for me. It’s what I am trying to help build in my forum, but I don’t know how well it will work there either.
I get the feeling that paternalistic can seem condescending to some too, so I am watching that, but it ties into the credit card pushing too – I don’t think it is right of me to pimp a card (or 7) and convince people to sign up in exchange for commissions – with that in mind I want to try to hammer home the point of the risks, as well as the rewards of playing the game.
Matt,
People, or at least I do appreciate the balance you (and others) attempt to maintain between the love of the game and the risks involved. I think there is also a balance between pimping cards and earning money. I am for the most part a black and white person and have difficulties seeing the grey areas. It is something I personally struggle with but I do have my wonderful wife who reminds me of this flaw 😉
As for being paternalistic, it is my belief that once you let people know it is something you are working to avoid, it takes the “sting” over how it reads/sounds. After all, some guy once said “Let those among us who are without sin cast the first stone.”
“Stewardship, as I understand it and want to perform it is not to restrict access, be mean, rude or exclusionary. It is to ensure that if someone is going to get involved in this game they have the skills and knowledge necessary to protect themselves, and keep the game alive.”
How do YOU decide that someone has the necessary skills to protect themselves? You broadcast information, but it would be impossible for you to know which of the millions/billions of people that have access to the internet are capable of protecting themselves/keeping the game alive.
I agree that we should all treat MS with respect. I just feel like it is impossible for you to both freely disperse knowledge AND know that people consuming it are going to use it in the right way. The best you can do is to lay out the perceived risks as you know them when discussing a deal.
I can’t decide, hence me not laying out deals. I’d now rather lay out ways to think about them, that way if the reader can’t absorb that it doesn’t causes harm as I’m not enabling them to get involved with a specific gig.
I do not understand this need for you to feel you have to “protect” people from themselves. This is one of the parts that make you appear paternalistic. Why is it anyone’s role to worry about enabling other people? No one has that power over me to enable me or make me make irresponsible choices with my finances and life. Everyone here is an adult in control of their life and the choices they make in that life. It is not for anyone to say to a grown up in this game “I can’t give you this information because you not old/smart/savvy enough to handle it in a responsible manner. Or it might enable you to do stupid things. How many people have done app-o-ramas got 6-7 credit cards and ending up screwing up their credit by running amok in spending then not paying off their balance. And how many like myself have been responsible and are having a glorious time flying and staying free.
I just got back from a 16 day trip to Europe BC flights, Hilton’s in London and Budapest, Radission Blu in Prague everything paid for by miles and points. The cost over 20k and my outlay was under $800. I appreciate the information from the many blogs I subscribe and read. I hustled and worked it hard information from the blogs to make this happen. I was also handled deal/ways to work the system and was happy for that as well.
I am in the or was before my semi retirement in the substance abuse rehabilitation field as a Clinical Director and one thing I learned is you can not protect a grown up from themselves. You can lay out the pitfalls, various options, teach people to not act on emotion but use critical thinking, even the do’s and don’ts (more so in miles game) but in the end it is that person right to choose. Sometimes you have to sit back knowing your client is making a bad choice but you respect their wish to choose. At times, they come around and say, you were right, I could have done something different. Now real learning can take place as he/she came to that decision on their own.
Matt, I respect that you are coming from a good place and you can do with your informational deals what you want, and give that information to anyone you want, as it is your blog. However, I fell and am sure many other adults, do not want you or ANYBODY deciding for me/them what information I can handle responsibly. I make my own choices in life and live with whatever consequences have come my way good and bad over a lifetime.
I do not think there is a way to parse information out as to who gets it and who does not unless in a private “old boy” network way. Or maybe certain people should be put on an email list and given responsible deal information. I do not proclaim to know the perfect answer. I do know it is your blog, you do with information what you wish. I respect your position with continue to read your blog and especially take part in the forums. Good job and keep moving forward.
Sorry John, but I have to disagree. And while it might seem bad to be paternalistic, I think it is part of what I am to be concerned about my impact and accountable for it.
If you worked in substance abuse I am sure that you didn’t leave booze and drugs lying around the room, or suggest that people could do what they wanted on day one? No doubt once they had been given a little time to cool off and you could connect and attempt to educate them you would allow them back into society to do what they would, but you wouldn’t enable them to abuse substances under your care (I would hope) so I would I enable people to get into trouble here, if I don’t know them and haven’t connected with them either?
Hey people, how much time we all gonna sit here and garble on about this stuff instead of actually getting out there and just MSing? that’s what I do. And I do so as hard as I can now cuz some new bozo is gonna come along and kill another deal so I gotsta work as hard as I can while I can.
BTW One of the founders of MileageUpdate invented the term/use “Stewardship” and “being a good steward of MS” to mean that people should just not abuse and kill the playing field by publicizing deals and thus blowing up workable things. You can go hard all you want, just dont talk about details of it online anywhere!
And I invented the term GIG but as Matt pointed out, it’s a good way to describe this “stuff” we do.
😀 MM
ok enough talk. Go MS!
Matt,
Can a person be concerned and accountable about their impact without being paternalistic? As it is a rhetorical question. It might or might not be something to reflect on.
When people come under my care they have already cause problems in their life due to their reckless addiction. In your situation, you are making the choice in advance for them that they will screw up in before they ever had the opportunity to show responsibility. The people that come to me already show a lack of responsibility due to being alcoholics and addicts. There is a hugh difference in the comparsions you propose. Now again, I respect your choice to do with your knowledge what you want. I am not saying I have the answers to any of the questions
Let’s leave in until we ever meet in person but respect that reasonable people can disagree on things.
MM has one right thought that we,should be out MS’ing rather than get out there an earning for the next whatever.
John
John and Matt, Great exchange of ideas and philosophies. As much as I’d love Matt to be right and be able to help all, being from the recovery world myself, that position is codependent and not nearly as successful as letting people learn by their mistakes. I gotta side with John in this disagreement, but certainly understand the risk it offers to all letting a newbie out without enough info.