Use of dislike button

Someone

Level 2 Member
#2
@Someone - giving me negative ratings doesn't help anyone understand why you disagree with my statements. If I am engaging in inappropriate behavior, report me to the mods or PM me. If you disagree with me, tell me why in the thread.

The repeated use of negative feedback isn't productive or meaningful.
@janetdoe I disagree with virtually all your statements in this thread, but since several people seem to agree with this quoted post, I'll explain.

First, please don't take it personally. I don't dislike *you* - I disagree with what you wrote in this particular thread, there's a big difference. I was not "giving you negative ratings" I was indicating my disagreement with your statements. As you repeated your statements, I repeated my dissent.

The short answer to your question is that in this specific case, I was browsing the forum on my phone and could not type out a lengthy response, so I clicked dislike. Had this been another forum I might have clicked thumbs down, minus, or red. The ability to vote in either the affirmative or negative for the content of a post is common on internet forums.

I wanted to quickly and briefly express my disagreement with your wrong-headed armchair lawyering (which I'll address in my next post). "Dislike" is entirely appropriate for posts that border on trolling.

Additionally, I have observed what appears to be a vocal minority on this forum who essentially think that the dislike button is bad and should not be used.

To them I say: not every post is deserving of a lengthy, well-reasoned response, and not every member should be required to make a lengthy well-reasoned response.

Pressuring members not to use the dislike button stifles dissent, inhibits open discussion, and reduces overall participation in the forum.

In the general case, perhaps a member is not able to or otherwise does not feel up to making a response to a given post but wants to express agreement or disagreement with the content of a post. Should they not be able, even *encouraged* to participate in the discussion by clicking "like" or "dislike" - essentially recording their opinion in the form of a vote? Another member who happens upon a disliked post may be motivated by the vote to express their opinion in response - in support or defense of the content of the post at issue.

Perhaps my simple indication of disagreement with your posts has or could have inspired someone else to post a longer response before I was able to.

If people take issue with the specific term "dislike" on the button, that's a matter for a separate discussion. I feel strongly that the ability to vote in either the affirmative or negative is valuable and important, and should be maintained.

Many (myself included) choose to spend time on this forum because the vitriol common to other forums is discouraged. Polite dissent is a valuable aspect of any intellectual discussion and should not be confused with malevolence.
 

janetdoe

Level 2 Member
#3
Pressuring members not to use the dislike button stifles dissent, inhibits open discussion, and reduces overall participation in the forum.
<snip>
If people take issue with the specific term "dislike" on the button, that's a matter for a separate discussion. I feel strongly that the ability to vote in either the affirmative or negative is valuable and important, and should be maintained.

Many (myself included) choose to spend time on this forum because the vitriol common to other forums is discouraged. Polite dissent is a valuable aspect of any intellectual discussion and should not be confused with malevolence.
I do think there is a structural problem with the dislike button on this forum, in that every like and dislike shows up as a personal "rating" this way:
Screen Shot 2016-02-05 at 10.15.15 AM.png
I think that is a bad system, and that system is why there is communal pressure not to use the dislike button to express disagreement. And I have asked @Matt to consider a different system, perhaps adding a agree/disagree buttons that would not have the implication of impacting member ratings. Because I agree with you 100% that one should be able to disagree with a post using a feedback button without downgrading the poster's "Ratings" as a member. I have seen this tool used very effectively in other forums.

Until something like that is in place, however, any 'dislike' basically has the impact of saying "You are being rated negatively as a member". There is no neutral, polite way to express disagreement or downvote on this forum with a button. And I do hope that this changes.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
#6
This thread must have been split off from another, as I see mentions of "previous posts" in message #2. I agree that the dislike button is dumb and often used by people who don't have a real argument, but are simply negative. If you can't just speak your mind, go away.

NOTE that I've also found that I can delete anyone's dislikes. Unfortunately, you are actually clearing all of the ratings it seems. But if you look at ratings, there is this little X that does the trick. I see this X and my ability to press it as justified as offering a dislike button that requires no comment to back it up.

If you're on the phone or otherwise too lazy to explain your disagreement, wait until you are off or be lazy enough to just go away. There are some folks here that use it way too much.
 
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Maverick17

Level 2 Member
#7
Do "ratings" serve a purpose on this site? I've seen them, but never paid attention to them; didn't know anyone cared about them.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
#8
Do "ratings" serve a purpose on this site? I've seen them, but never paid attention to them; didn't know anyone cared about them.
Not yet. I've thought about doing something with them, but it wouldn't be a case where negative ratings impacted your ability to do something as that might encourage weirdos to start negging everything.
 

MickiSue

Level 2 Member
Supporter
#9
How about now, Matt? I don't see any buttons beyond the usual?

Are the disagree/agree buttons in a different place?

Am I blind?

Or are they not here yet?

As for using the dislike button to signal disagreement: that doesn't work for me. The only times I've used the dislike button is if someone is being egregiously jerky, either to a class of people, or to another poster.

I've had it used in spite against me: poster says something appallingly nasty, I dislike the post, my next post (Wow, the sky is blue today!) gets a dislike from that poster.

Can't say that I'm a fan of the dislike button, for that reason.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
#10
How about now, Matt? I don't see any buttons beyond the usual?
I adjusted the settings so it doesn't show how many negative ratings you have received. Therefore, it is contained to the thread itself, and the impact of receiving a rating does not stretch beyond the topic at hand.

I like the dislike button, but do agree not everyone is mature enough to use it correctly.
 

labboypro

Chief Factotum
#11
I like the dislike button, but do agree not everyone is mature enough to use it correctly.
Sounds like we've had to go "least common denominator" instead of holding the immatures accountable :(

Also, before your change, I had some 3-digit number there... now it's 2 digits. I wonder if the original number included likes, funnys, informatives, etc., and now doesn't. In any case, I'm now 50+ points further away from that Kewpie doll I've had my eye on in the Saverocity store. :eek:

Generally speaking, I'm capable of adapting.
 

kissmyjazz

Level 2 Member
#14
@Someone - giving me positive ratings doesn't help anyone understand why you agree with my statements. If I am engaging in appropriate behavior, give me some tangible rewards or PM me. If you agree with me, tell me why in the thread.

The repeated use of positive feedback isn't productive or meaningful.
 
#17
@Someone - giving me positive ratings doesn't help anyone understand why you agree with my statements. If I am engaging in appropriate behavior, give me some tangible rewards or PM me. If you agree with me, tell me why in the thread.

The repeated use of positive feedback isn't productive or meaningful.
Great! Now I need to keep a spreadsheet so I can look up posters so I know who will and won't be offended by negative/positive feedback. As if there isn't enough to keep track of in this game. :p
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
#19
I actually want to see both (+) and (-) ratings in the member profile. If someone has +400, and it only shows that, it looks great. But to give an extreme case, if they also had (-800), that changes the story. If (-) isn't available you're missing half the information.

I do think (-) should be given with care. I also see it as disagreeing with the post, not the person.
 
#20
I actually want to see both (+) and (-) ratings in the member profile. If someone has +400, and it only shows that, it looks great. But to give an extreme case, if they also had (-800), that changes the story. If (-) isn't available you're missing half the information.

I do think (-) should be given with care. I also see it as disagreeing with the post, not the person.
Sometimes I want to hit the dislike/thumbs down because I don't like the news (someone getting shut down), but it's not typically used in that manner and I don't want it taken personally. Maybe that's the reason FB has been slow to get on board with a dislike button. Lol
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
#21
I actually want to see both (+) and (-) ratings in the member profile. If someone has +400, and it only shows that, it looks great. But to give an extreme case, if they also had (-800), that changes the story. If (-) isn't available you're missing half the information.
This seems to contradict, this:

I also see it as disagreeing with the post, not the person.
 

labboypro

Chief Factotum
#22
For those of you who don't do ebay, you might be surprised to learn that sellers CANNOT leave negative feedback for a buyer... period. It's simply not possible. And thus, when you see a "buyer only" who has 800 (using @italdesign's number above) positive feedback, you have no way of knowing if they might also have 800 "negatives" if the system allowed it. It grossly skews the picture, and as italdesign puts it, that changes the story.

/another 2 cents
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
#24
Not to me. I see reporting (-) as how many times your posts have been disliked/disagreed with, and (+) as how many times your posts have been liked. Those are relevant information about a member.
I strongly disagree. Should I thumbs-down this? Too? I don't think so.

For the longest time, dislike seemed to never or rarely be used. Suddenly a couple of trigger-happy folks came along and ... things changed. I see no value in a descending sentiment without some type of counter argument.
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
#25
I strongly disagree. Should I thumbs-down this? Too? I don't think so.
Depends how strong the disagreement. If it's burning flame boiling in your stomach, sure let it out. For normal disagreements, no.

For the longest time, dislike seemed to never or rarely be used. Suddenly a couple of trigger-happy folks came along and ... things changed. I see no value in a descending sentiment without some type of counter argument.
I wasn't aware of this. Yeah, I can see how this would change things.

Maybe the way to gauge someone's reputation/reliability is to review their recent posts. That's what I do now.
 

MickiSue

Level 2 Member
Supporter
#27
I've been here since the beginning. What I see, in general, is that posters who have accrued a large number of positive ratings over time have not accrued many negatives. And those who have accrued few positives have accrued a relatively large number of negatives.

One of the pleasures of posting at saverocity is that the majority of people here take the idea of civility seriously. And those who don't tend to, whether they notice it or not, post in a vacuum: they get few responses, and many dislikes.

Personally, I appreciate the fact that one can like OR call informative OR call funny any given post. That allows both the poster and the reader to see more precisely what caught another poster's eye about the post.

But, given the fact that a handful of posters view the dislike button as shorthand for "You stink!", it's rare that I see a dislike and think: OHHH. Bad news.
 

janetdoe

Level 2 Member
#28
Personally, I appreciate the fact that one can like OR call informative OR call funny any given post. That allows both the poster and the reader to see more precisely what caught another poster's eye about the post.

But, given the fact that a handful of posters view the dislike button as shorthand for "You stink!", it's rare that I see a dislike and think: OHHH. Bad news.
The difficulty, IMO, is that some people use it for "You are seriously out of line!" and some use it for "I disagree" and I recall one thread where someone used it in the sense of, "That idea is banal and we should have a higher level of creative discourse on this forum" :D So when someone dislikes you, it is hard to tell what they mean. For example, the thread that this was split off from, I made several negative comments about a blogger and explained why I suspect he is not on the firm legal ground that he thinks. I received several dislikes, and it was very difficult for me to tell if the raters were simply disagreeing with my logic, or didn't like the tone of my comments, or resented legal speculation which might call into question their own behavior, or some combination of everything.

If I'm doing something that is seriously pissing people off, I need to know about it so I can adjust. But if I'm expressing an opinion that is unpopular, I don't want to stop advocating that position simply because it's not popular.

I agree 100% that the gradations of positive feedback ("informative", "funny", "like", etc.) are very meaningful and improve the board. I just think it would be similarly useful to have have a distinction on un-positive feedback such as "Disagree" versus "Dislike".

Having one button that some people use only for a serious affront and others use to express honest disagreement actually causes more negative atmosphere (IMO) and has derailed a couple of threads lately.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
#29
I once was the target of a dislike for the simple, single sentence (paraphrasing from memory) "Yes, my Simon mall takes AMEX cards." I have no idea why someone didn't like this. I think this is where I also discovered I can delete dislike marks.
 
#30
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but the rating system puzzles me a bit. It shows that I've received many more "likes" than I've given (2)....I have given way more than 2 since coming here...so not sure about accuracy?
 
#31
I once was the target of a dislike for the simple, single sentence (paraphrasing from memory) "Yes, my Simon mall takes AMEX cards." I have no idea why someone didn't like this. I think this is where I also discovered I can delete dislike marks.
Same happened to me. I once stated a fact (that none of the employees at my local WM speak English as their first language) someone disliked the post (or maybe the content? who knows. Go figure, humans are irrational. I am not big on post rating systems, based on past experience where I witnessed a once great forum get gutted by such a system, but no one asked me :)
 
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