There must be a workaround for this- has anyone tried correlating ITA or other tools with ANA to see if we can figure out the pricing?
Super usual award program but lack of fee transparency is a real pita.
The Original Thread
- Thread starter KennyBSAT
- Start date
Super usual award program but lack of fee transparency is a real pita.
Like Maverick says I think with your balances *A is your best bet if you're looking for most options. AA could work if you can get the points in time - it also depends how "end of the year" your trip is. Right now the days around Christmas are a barren wasteland last I checked. Don't forget you could use Avios to hop to another Asian city if that helps open up possibilities for you (like HK or TPE), though I think there will be way more intra-Asia space than trans-Pacific. Good luck!
I think AA on CX is the best option value/comfort wise (J 110K RT pp), though if you could get on Eva Air via *A that'd be nice too (J 160K RT pp). Personally I love Bali which you can fly direct to from HKG, using Avios in coach if necessary though if you fly using United you could do HKG as a stopover and combine both into the same trip. In my experience 330 is your best bet for CX
Matt is correct. That is how all partner awards work in my experience. You must always search for saver level. Also note if you are a United premier or cc holder, you get access to additional award space. You cannot access this from partner miles. So if you fall into one of these categories, make sure you are Not signed into your United account if you use that to search (which I personally recommend). Dans Deals has a great post on searching United and the different space they have.
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/39513
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Maverick17
Level 2 Member
What miles do you have available? AA or AS for CX is great. UA has the EWR-HKG flight which I've flown a few times and I like too, although not nearly the soft product and more expensive now than in the past.
HKG is a great jumping off point for any number of places with Avios. The UA open jaw stopover rule applies not just to TPAC/TATL but also can be used on a wholly SE Asia ticket too, so that can be very useful. I personally wasn't too impressed with Bali, but I love Vietnam, Malaysia, and the Philippines. I also have a lot of fun in Taiwan. RGN has lots to offer as well, and is near the top of my to-do list.
Thanks for your thoughts! AA on CX sounds like the way to go as of now.
I have AA, UA, UR, MR.
I would like to the idea to stop for a day or two in Taiwan, but I couldn't manage finding a way to connect TPE on AA with HKG and NYC.
Yea you can't really. Though you could break the trip up into segments - *A one way to Taiwan (UA), Avios to HKG (UR), CX home (AA), or any combination like that
I wish there is a workaround ...
I haven't booked an award with ANA, but aren't they just doing what the other carriers do and passing through whatever YQ/YR is on the fare itself? As in, finding the fare on ITA, the YQ/YR on the details should be what ANA charges? It's an extra step, but it works for Alitalia, where they don't price out the fees unless you have enough miles to book. At least, it lined up with what I was told on the phone when I called them to ask before transferring miles.
Yeah that is what I was thinking - hence being able to pull it up via ITA - would be good to have a person with enough points to run a cross check on it.
TravelDean
Say NO to road trips
Help to get Family of 5 from Paris to SLC May 23rdish 2015
So all my plans are not working and I am at a loss for how to make this work without wasting too many miles on AA.
I have:
AA: 312K
Alaska Air: 180K
MR: 101K
UR: 221K
SWA: 120K
AA wants 65K ea for coach and I know there there has to be a better way.
We can fly to a major hub then find a SWA or Avios flight from there to SLC but would like to make the trip home as simple as possible.
I apologize that I don't understand the booking codes and tools so well. Thank you!
So all my plans are not working and I am at a loss for how to make this work without wasting too many miles on AA.
I have:
AA: 312K
Alaska Air: 180K
MR: 101K
UR: 221K
SWA: 120K
AA wants 65K ea for coach and I know there there has to be a better way.
We can fly to a major hub then find a SWA or Avios flight from there to SLC but would like to make the trip home as simple as possible.
I apologize that I don't understand the booking codes and tools so well. Thank you!
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NEPIC
Level 2 Member
Dean - props for getting organized so early!
A couple of questions:
Are you needing to fly coach, or is business a possibility, mileage balances permitting?
Are you two adults and three younger ones? I assume then you could break the party up into a 2 and 3? Or is there even greater flexibility there for solo travel?
Nick
A couple of questions:
Are you needing to fly coach, or is business a possibility, mileage balances permitting?
Are you two adults and three younger ones? I assume then you could break the party up into a 2 and 3? Or is there even greater flexibility there for solo travel?
Nick
TravelDean
Say NO to road trips
2 Adults, 3 kids under 12
Business would be great but not necessary
We could possibly split especially if we can fly more comfortably.
Any ideas on how to make it work? My searches continue to fail for any reasonable routes above 3 people.
Maverick17
Level 2 Member
I haven't done any research on this myself yet, but where I always start is with the TATL flights. Being CDG and with a variety of miles, hopefully you can find some good options. I'm in SLC and it can be a pain behind the DL curtain getting in and out of here with UA and AA flying smaller planes on many routes.
Can you provide more details are your travel dates. You state "23rdish", but what is are your available dates? What are the maximum connections you want? Do you all have to fly the same flights or can you fly separate (presumably 2 and 3) as long as you leave and arrive within an 1-2 hours of each other?
NEPIC
Level 2 Member
Thanks TravelDean.
I'd personally try to split the party up into a 2-some and 3-some. I think the chances of finding 5 seats together are relatively small.
Given the kids situation (minimizing connections) and SLC, I would try and use Skyteam (MR->Air France and UR->Korean) and Alaska (on Delta, Air France or KLM) to try and get you to CDG on a non-stop or one-stop. I know the direct SLC-CDG is not going to be easy to find, but between Delta's SEA-CDG, MSP-CDG, ORD-CDG and DTW-CDG flights you may be able to find space.
If there's no space into CDG, I would take a look trying to do a similar Skyteam/Alaska redemption as above into either BRU or LHR. If Brussels, you can train it relatively easily. If LHR, avios or train again.
I've had a bunch of headaches trying to redeem Oneworld awards to Europe given the issues of lack of availability and fuel surcharges, so I would pursue the Skyteam angle first. The possible exception here is to find seats on Jet Airways' EWR-BRU flight. It isn't searchable on line, so you have to verify availability via phone, but when I did this, they did seem to have decent space.
Finally, given how far out it is, if you can find space now for half of your party I would consider booking what you can now and seeing if you can complete the second half in the months to come. Worst case if at 3-4 months out you can't find award space, you should still have enough advance notice to purchase tickets at reasonable fares.
I'll try and have a little look today if any of these ideas could be made concrete, and feel free to message if anything isn't clear.
Cheers,
Nick
Good Morning,
I've been playing this game for about 2 years now, and while my wife and I have used miles/points to take quite a few shorter trips (mostly domestic + some Caribbean, always in coach), we've never splurged and taken a really nice, long trip. For awhile now, we've both been wanting to visit Hawaii for a week+ and I'd really like to try flying business/first for these longer flights. I know it's a high-demand destination, but it seems like lots of people are able to make it work. We'd like to visit Kauai (Grand Hyatt Kauai) and maybe a few days in Maui (Andaz Maui) during the cold months here in Michigan (Nov-Mar). We live in West Michigan, so our home airport is GRR. Ideally, we'd depart on a Fri and return on a following Sat/Sun, but I know that's asking for a lot and we could probably make most anything work (just needs to be ~1 week). Our current balances are as follows:
Alaska Air: 26k
AA: 885k
UA: 147k
US: 70k
WN: 13k + CP
Chase UR: 360k
SPG: 41k
Most of the AA miles have come from 7 Citi Executive approvals between me and my wife, so we'd really like to burn some of those and save the Chase/UA points/miles for other trips. I've found that AA flies direct routes from DFW-OGG and DFW-HNL on 763s instead of 757s out of LAX or PHX. I know the demand for those flights would be very high so I don't know if it's realistic to hope to find 2 business/first seats on one of these flights during the months we'd want to go, especially since we're not ~11 months out anymore.
I proposed this question on FT and the suggestion was to subscribe to EF and set some alerts, but I don't know if I'd use it enough to get enough value out of $10/mo, or if it's even worth it considering whether what I'm after is realistic...? Another question is whether anyone here has a "First Class" membership to WA's Travel Tools, where you can set up 50 different award search alerts which are queried at least 4 times daily. Curious how this works out if anyone's used it, as it's only $15/year.
Anyway, any comments/questions/suggestions/etc would be gladly received and greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Dave
I've been playing this game for about 2 years now, and while my wife and I have used miles/points to take quite a few shorter trips (mostly domestic + some Caribbean, always in coach), we've never splurged and taken a really nice, long trip. For awhile now, we've both been wanting to visit Hawaii for a week+ and I'd really like to try flying business/first for these longer flights. I know it's a high-demand destination, but it seems like lots of people are able to make it work. We'd like to visit Kauai (Grand Hyatt Kauai) and maybe a few days in Maui (Andaz Maui) during the cold months here in Michigan (Nov-Mar). We live in West Michigan, so our home airport is GRR. Ideally, we'd depart on a Fri and return on a following Sat/Sun, but I know that's asking for a lot and we could probably make most anything work (just needs to be ~1 week). Our current balances are as follows:
Alaska Air: 26k
AA: 885k
UA: 147k
US: 70k
WN: 13k + CP
Chase UR: 360k
SPG: 41k
Most of the AA miles have come from 7 Citi Executive approvals between me and my wife, so we'd really like to burn some of those and save the Chase/UA points/miles for other trips. I've found that AA flies direct routes from DFW-OGG and DFW-HNL on 763s instead of 757s out of LAX or PHX. I know the demand for those flights would be very high so I don't know if it's realistic to hope to find 2 business/first seats on one of these flights during the months we'd want to go, especially since we're not ~11 months out anymore.
I proposed this question on FT and the suggestion was to subscribe to EF and set some alerts, but I don't know if I'd use it enough to get enough value out of $10/mo, or if it's even worth it considering whether what I'm after is realistic...? Another question is whether anyone here has a "First Class" membership to WA's Travel Tools, where you can set up 50 different award search alerts which are queried at least 4 times daily. Curious how this works out if anyone's used it, as it's only $15/year.
Anyway, any comments/questions/suggestions/etc would be gladly received and greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Dave
NEPIC
Level 2 Member
TravelDean,
I took a look at the ORD-CDG route and there is an abundance of availability in business! 9 seats on AF, 3 on DL! There's also some similar space ex-DTW and IAH.
You didn't mention a return date, and because we are almost a year out, you may have to wait a couple of weeks for the return space to open up. Here's my advice based on the availability I'm seeing out of ORD to get you all one flight:
1) Book 3x one ways on AF with Alaska for 187.5k (meaning you would need to purchase 7.5k ~$220 now or accumulate quickly) ORD-CDG
2) Book 2x returns on AF with Korean Air transferred from Chase for 160k ORD-CDG. You would either need a dummy return or just leave it as a one way priced as a return.
You could reverse the payments here if you could come up with 19k UR points quickly too.
3) Find the return portions when they open up in a couple of weeks, depending on your return date.
This would leave you with your MR and AA stash of miles that can be used for the 3 remaining one ways. You may of course be able to find some connecting availability now for SLC-ORD, but if not, no problems. Wait it out and DL space may open, or use Avios for AA or SW.
Finally, both Alaska and Korean don't charge change fees (>60days out for Alaska) so you have some flexibility there to add the SLC legs and update the returns. You can also hold the Korean awards while you transfer miles in.
Nick
I took a look at the ORD-CDG route and there is an abundance of availability in business! 9 seats on AF, 3 on DL! There's also some similar space ex-DTW and IAH.
You didn't mention a return date, and because we are almost a year out, you may have to wait a couple of weeks for the return space to open up. Here's my advice based on the availability I'm seeing out of ORD to get you all one flight:
1) Book 3x one ways on AF with Alaska for 187.5k (meaning you would need to purchase 7.5k ~$220 now or accumulate quickly) ORD-CDG
2) Book 2x returns on AF with Korean Air transferred from Chase for 160k ORD-CDG. You would either need a dummy return or just leave it as a one way priced as a return.
You could reverse the payments here if you could come up with 19k UR points quickly too.
3) Find the return portions when they open up in a couple of weeks, depending on your return date.
This would leave you with your MR and AA stash of miles that can be used for the 3 remaining one ways. You may of course be able to find some connecting availability now for SLC-ORD, but if not, no problems. Wait it out and DL space may open, or use Avios for AA or SW.
Finally, both Alaska and Korean don't charge change fees (>60days out for Alaska) so you have some flexibility there to add the SLC legs and update the returns. You can also hold the Korean awards while you transfer miles in.
Nick
NEPIC
Level 2 Member
Dave,
Personally, I think the $99 a year for Expert Flyer is worth it. Even just booking awards for a couple of friends and myself and it makes a world of difference. It's not perfect, but it definitely helps. Having said that, if your focus is on a couple of AA flights, and you don't mind searching AA.com on a regular basis, the monthly view is a fairly quick and easy overview of award space.
I attempted to use WA award search tool for Oneworld and it didn't seem to be working. His United-based search tool unfortunately had to be withdrawn on order by United, so I'm not sure if there was a similar issue with the QF based Oneworld one too, or if it's just a temporary thing.
Nick
Mountain Trader
Level 2 Member
I agree with your choice of using AA miles based on your inventory and the higher value for UA miles (which still allow stopovers).
Your assessment of the difficulty of getting AA flights to Hawaii from DFW in F is correct-it is indeed tough. So is your assessment of the superior hard product for those flights compared to the flights originating further West. We flew LAX-LIH in F in February and it is like F circa 1990-overhead screens, old seats, bored FAs. It was still better than connecting through HNL though.
Hard to assess value on EF these days. It has no ability to find UA awards, and is also out of the game for other Star airlines. It can find flights on AA metal, but not on US Air. That latter point is important because that means EF will not find any itinerary that includes a US Air flight, even where there are other flights on AA metal on the itinerary. Another factor is that AA does not release very many seats downstream, so there aren't many to find even if EF could. I have not use WA, though I have heard good things, though it is not as easy to use as EF. I will likely try WA later this year.
I guess in your spot I would probably use either WA or EF to set-up alerts for all the AA flights that you could use, up the the max allowed by the provider you pick.
Re-reading the above suggest not much to go on-wish I had better advice to offer.
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TravelDean
Say NO to road trips
We would like to get back on Saturday the 23rd so we can go to church and rest Sunday and Monday (Memorial day holiday)
Coming home a day early is possible to so the 22 - 25th is possible.
Since the kids are young, less connections and separation is best but I will consider all options that make sense. Thank you for your help!
Ok, thanks for the additional info. How about flying separately, ie wife with 1 child, and you flying with 2 children, but leaving within an hour or two and arriving within an hour or two (just taking different routes). Is that reasonable for you?
Mountain Trader
Level 2 Member
Another facet to keep in mind: AA allows free changes to award bookings provided the origin and destination stay the same. Thus, if you find a useable set of flights, you can book them, then set-up alerts to improve your position. This can be very powerful if you dig around.
TravelDean
Say NO to road trips
Where would you set the alerts to tell that 5 seats on the Flight I want comes available?
Mountain Trader
Level 2 Member
I have only used EF so that's where I would set the alerts.
Like others, I have to point out that finding 5 award seats on the same flight in today's world is a very tall order. The suggestion to split up onto two flights is a good one, and you might give it serious thought.
Like others, I have to point out that finding 5 award seats on the same flight in today's world is a very tall order. The suggestion to split up onto two flights is a good one, and you might give it serious thought.
Maverick17
Level 2 Member
Looking on United for Y, I'm seeing good availability on the 23rd and days around it for CDG-ORD and CDG-SFO, flying AC via YYZ or LH and LH/UA combo via FRA. That's for 5 seats on a flight. Also on AA I'm seeing 5 of Y on the AA CDG-ORD and CDG-MIA flights. So I really think the SLC leg might be your hardest, but you could maybe fly the TATL together before splitting up.
Just wrote up a post on this, something of a shift in thinking, if it might help some that are struggling with the booking award travel for families http://saverocity.com/travel/alcuin-york-deal-award-travel/
Dealsformelanie
Level 2 Member
Matt, that's a really helpful strategy for booking airline tickets, which I didn't use because I didn't know about! I spent many, many hours trying to book 5 economy tickets with United/affiliates from BOS to XIY (China) to TLV (Israel) to BDL (Hartford, CT). Finally got those tickets, but good thing my dates were flexible!
What about hotel booking with points for families? (We have 3 kids.) Now I am trying to book hotels in Israel (3 nights Jerusalem, 2 nights Tiberius, 2 nights Tel Aviv). I ended up booking cancelable rates for various properties/apartments through booking.com and hotels.com because I could not redeem points for award nights with my children ($1400 total price!). Even my IHG 1 night free certificate is only good for 2 people (as far as I could tell). Even if I booked 2 rooms with points, that only covers 4 people, not 5. Maybe I should focus more on cash back than hotel points.
What about hotel booking with points for families? (We have 3 kids.) Now I am trying to book hotels in Israel (3 nights Jerusalem, 2 nights Tiberius, 2 nights Tel Aviv). I ended up booking cancelable rates for various properties/apartments through booking.com and hotels.com because I could not redeem points for award nights with my children ($1400 total price!). Even my IHG 1 night free certificate is only good for 2 people (as far as I could tell). Even if I booked 2 rooms with points, that only covers 4 people, not 5. Maybe I should focus more on cash back than hotel points.
@Dealsformelanie, we traveled for years with our two kids (who are now young adults) and we found that in Europe and Asia we either stayed in small local, family run hotels that had "family rooms" that could hold 4-5 people or we rented apartments, from vrbo or other agencies. Even this summer, with only our daughter traveling with us, we have pursued the same strategy. We find we stay in much more interesting places with more character than the major chain hotels. So I would focus on cashback to pay for accommodation instead of hotel points.
I think @Barb makes some great points, and as some of you might know I am somewhat new to family travel (he isn't quite a month yet) therefore, I am no pro at room booking, I'll certainly look into it. Are you hitting roadblocks on number of people per room or something? I would think that worst case 2 rooms, booked as Dad/1 Mom/2 would work?
Great in theory.. but what happens if only some of the seats open up that you need? Take my issue for example... getting ready to book my honeymoon soon, and on one of the legs I want to fly CX using my AS miles. Now because it's my honeymoon I really want to fly F (yes I know 1st world problems, but getting to eat across from each other just sounds so awesome). Being based out of SEA, flying CX out of YVR would be great, except that they only seem to be offering 1 F seat award per flight. My dilemma is do I just route via LAX, and add 6-7 hrs to the trip so I can guarantee 2 F seats, or do I chance having one of us in F and the other "marooned" in J if a second F seat doesn't open up.
gilapoin21
Level 2 Member
Hi all,
We would like to go this route CGK-SUB-PVG-HKG with stopovers in SUB and PVG.
Alternatively, can also do CGK-SUB-HKG-PVG with stopovers in SUB and HKG.
I'm thinking *A is the way to go here since it will be considered 1 award, right?
We have about 70k UA and 350k UR. Also have plenty of AA miles if that's the better way to go.
Thanks,
Bill
We would like to go this route CGK-SUB-PVG-HKG with stopovers in SUB and PVG.
Alternatively, can also do CGK-SUB-HKG-PVG with stopovers in SUB and HKG.
I'm thinking *A is the way to go here since it will be considered 1 award, right?
We have about 70k UA and 350k UR. Also have plenty of AA miles if that's the better way to go.
Thanks,
Bill
Anh
Level 2 Member
Ultimately that's the decision you and your future wife will have to make together. My wife is always about getting to the destination quickly. An extra 6-7 hours in a big aluminum bus 35000 feet in the air is still an extra 6-7 hours, no matter how much better the food/drink/chair is because the food/drink/chair is still inferior compared to the options available when we get to the destination