Points/Miles: Can you have "too many?"

[Hanoi IG]

I had no idea where to post this, or if it is even appropriate for any of these fora.

Like most people with this hobby(?) vocation(?) I get a ton of emails, tweets and other information about getting credit cards with bonus points. To date, both my wife and I have gotten a number of these and managed the minimum spend by various means. Of course with CSR offering 3x for travel and AX offering 5x for airfare, I have to find other ways to meet requirements.

Some of these cards are affinity for AA or Delta or hotel chains that we are unlikely to use so I'm not that interested, and some call for really high spend, which we can't make without buying just for the sake of points. I did pay our cable/internet and mobile phone bills a few months in advance but wouldn't again at least until I was down to owing again.

We are pretty much booked up for the rest of this year and through early May of 2018. We have some weekends in NY, PHL, DC where we always stay at Sofitel(Platinum with special relationships so get best deals and often huge suites plus I have about 1000 euros of points to spend once I make Platinum for 2018, which may be this weekend. Also some baseball trips where we will stay at Hiltons and Hamptons.

We have two one week trips to Paris(one with a side to Berlin) where hotels and air are already paid. We have a South African Safari which we are reaching through a convoluted route and have air(QR business via SIN and SQ to South Africa via MLE) paid and an award stay at Conrad Maldives.

In December we leave on a Viking cruise of 141 days.

Basically, we have no places to spend points/miles for the next 13-14 months.

We have over 30K AS miles each and I have 145K SQ miles. We have 550K LifeMiles, over 150K MR and 341UR, not counting the points we will earn on $ already spent and the balances due on the cruise and safari. Also have over 40K Amtrak Rewards each and have to find time and a route on which to use them.

It seems to me that there is no point signing up for any more credit cards because (1) we have nothing on which to spend, (2) we should be using points rather than accumulating them.

Is my assessment correct or is there some reason we should seek more bonuses? We are retired so have pretty much free time and our living expenses are quite low. I realize it's a real First World Problem and I think I have it figured but those new cards are sometimes tempting! If it mattered, both of our credit scores are low 800s.

Thanks if anyone reads this and double thanks if anyone replies.

 

[Josh F]

IMO if I can acquire points very cheap then I will continue to do so, even if I don't have a near future need for them. I continue to accrue points at a faster rate than I can spend them, and I'm okay with it. While I understand the Earn & Burn mentality, that's not viable for everyone. There's 2 things that I see continuing to happen, your points will become worth less and it will be harder to earn points easily. Credit Card Signups are generally a near-free way to earn miles, so I'll keep doing that. I'd rather have the points "banked" then find out when I want them, I can no longer cheaply get them. However, this approach to me only makes sense if you can get the points exceedingly cheap. Don't buy AA miles at 1.5 cpp unless you have a very specific use for them, for example.

 

[Hanoi IG]

IMO if I can acquire points very cheap then I will continue to do so, even if I don't have a near future need for them. I continue to accrue points at a faster rate than I can spend them, and I'm okay with it. While I understand the Earn & Burn mentality, that's not viable for everyone. There's 2 things that I see continuing to happen, your points will become worth less and it will be harder to earn points easily. Credit Card Signups are generally a near-free way to earn miles, so I'll keep doing that. I'd rather have the points "banked" then find out when I want them, I can no longer cheaply get them. However, this approach to me only makes sense if you can get the points exceedingly cheap. Don't buy AA miles at 1.5 cpp unless you have a very specific use for them, for example.

Thanks. I just begin to have trouble finding ways of spending money. I just bought a suit and some shirts but didn't get bespoke so only spent about $1000. We are older and married nearly 37 years so have pretty much everything we need and my mobile phone, cable/internet are paid several months in advance. $3 or $4K in three months might be difficult to achieve, especially non-bonus where I think I'm ahead more by using CSR?

We spend a lot on groceries but there's still only two of us so spent $600 on last months bill(includes RX and non food items) We get $36 back on AX pref blue.

 

[Josh F]

Thanks. I just begin to have trouble finding ways of spending money. I just bought a suit and some shirts but didn't get bespoke so only spent about $1000. We are older and married nearly 37 years so have pretty much everything we need and my mobile phone, cable/internet are paid several months in advance. $3 or $4K in three months might be difficult to achieve, especially non-bonus where I think I'm ahead more by using CSR?

We spend a lot on groceries but there's still only two of us so spent $600 on last months bill(includes RX and non food items) We get $36 back on AX pref blue.

Not sure if you're for/against MS, but maybe consider some minimal MS to meet spend CC bonuses...

 

[Hanoi IG]

Not sure if you're for/against MS, but maybe consider some minimal MS to meet spend CC bonuses...

What is it?

 

[italdesign]

Not sure if you're for/against MS, but maybe consider some minimal MS to meet spend CC bonuses...

That's like asking if we're for or against breathing.

 

[Hanoi IG]

That's like asking if we're for or against breathing.

I still don't get it. What exactly is MS? I know it's some sort of scheme where you use a card but then get cash to redeposit into your account but have no clue how this works.

 

[heavenlyjane]

I still don't get it. What exactly is MS? I know it's some sort of scheme where you use a card but then get cash to redeposit into your account but have no clue how this works.

https://saverocity.com/forum/resources/starting-out-with-ms.44/

 

[Josh F]

That's like asking if we're for or against breathing.

I'm personally 100% for it, but it's not for everyone...

 

[Hanoi IG]

https://saverocity.com/forum/resources/starting-out-with-ms.44/

Thanks for the link but it might as well be in Mandarin! What is ROI or AOC or those other abbreviations? It doesn't exactly set forth what you buy and how you turn it into cash. I already know that I'm not going to be buying and selling goods as we are old and retired and have enough money to buy what we need, although we hardly ever pay for airfares, except when there are huge deals. Hotels are a bit different, because of our long relationship with Sofitel and many of the individual hotels. I do have Hilton as a backup and have gotten some stays with points and Diamant status from a match with Accor. We would certainly stay at our Sofitels in many cities without even checking for alternatives.

Anyway this MS, what am I buying that converts right into cash? Just exploring. My main reason for this post was to ask if maybe I should stop getting new cards for a while, in view of my limited ability to spend and a fair stash of points.

 

[R.R.]

For a more simplified explanation of MS (Manufactured Spending), you might be interested in the writings of Frequent Miler. For example, Google "Frequent Miler," and on his blog page, search for "Manufactured Spending Complete Guide."

Many people on this forum MS routinely, whereas I don't really enjoy it that much and therefore only tend to MS in order to meet minimum spends. You might find that you decide not to MS at all.

 

[GEN]

Anyway this MS, what am I buying that converts right into cash?

Most common and accessible routes involve buying gift debit cards with a credit card and then using those gift debit cards to buy money orders. Money orders are easily converted into cash which can then be used to pay off the credit card bill generated from initial gift card purchase. Others send money to friends or relatives via Venmo (which is like PayPal) or similar services. Both (and most commonly known) methods have an overhead of about 1-3%.

Many use this avenue to meet minimum spending requirements to trigger sign up bonuses.

 

[newaliases]

I had no idea where to post this, or if it is even appropriate for any of these fora.

Like most people with this hobby(?) vocation(?) I get a ton of emails, tweets and other information about getting credit cards with bonus points. To date, both my wife and I have gotten a number of these and managed the minimum spend by various means. Of course with CSR offering 3x for travel and AX offering 5x for airfare, I have to find other ways to meet requirements.

Some of these cards are affinity for AA or Delta or hotel chains that we are unlikely to use so I'm not that interested, and some call for really high spend, which we can't make without buying just for the sake of points. I did pay our cable/internet and mobile phone bills a few months in advance but wouldn't again at least until I was down to owing again.

We are pretty much booked up for the rest of this year and through early May of 2018. We have some weekends in NY, PHL, DC where we always stay at Sofitel(Platinum with special relationships so get best deals and often huge suites plus I have about 1000 euros of points to spend once I make Platinum for 2018, which may be this weekend. Also some baseball trips where we will stay at Hiltons and Hamptons.

We have two one week trips to Paris(one with a side to Berlin) where hotels and air are already paid. We have a South African Safari which we are reaching through a convoluted route and have air(QR business via SIN and SQ to South Africa via MLE) paid and an award stay at Conrad Maldives.

In December we leave on a Viking cruise of 141 days.

Basically, we have no places to spend points/miles for the next 13-14 months.

We have over 30K AS miles each and I have 145K SQ miles. We have 550K LifeMiles, over 150K MR and 341UR, not counting the points we will earn on $ already spent and the balances due on the cruise and safari. Also have over 40K Amtrak Rewards each and have to find time and a route on which to use them.

It seems to me that there is no point signing up for any more credit cards because (1) we have nothing on which to spend, (2) we should be using points rather than accumulating them.

Is my assessment correct or is there some reason we should seek more bonuses? We are retired so have pretty much free time and our living expenses are quite low. I realize it's a real First World Problem and I think I have it figured but those new cards are sometimes tempting! If it mattered, both of our credit scores are low 800s.

Thanks if anyone reads this and double thanks if anyone replies.

Just one perspective: due to frequent devaluations, I tend to earn and spend. Meaning, if I am booking a trip, I would use my available points unless it is obviously not a good deal.

However, that said, I also collect because, even if I might have more than I need for awhile, it boils down to if you are going to spend the same amount of money per month on bills, utilities, etc., then why not be earning sign up bonuses vs. the 1-3% cashback you can get?

 

[Hanoi IG]

Most common and accessible routes involve buying gift debit cards with a credit card and then using those gift debit cards to buy money orders. Money orders are easily converted into cash which can then be used to pay off the credit card bill generated from initial gift card purchase. Others send money to friends or relatives via Venmo (which is like PayPal) or similar services. Both (and most commonly known) methods have an overhead of about 1-3%.

Many use this avenue to meet minimum spending requirements to trigger sign up bonuses.

Thanks. Thant makes it a bit more clear

 

[Hanoi IG]

Just one perspective: due to frequent devaluations, I tend to earn and spend. Meaning, if I am booking a trip, I would use my available points unless it is obviously not a good deal.

However, that said, I also collect because, even if I might have more than I need for awhile, it boils down to if you are going to spend the same amount of money per month on bills, utilities, etc., then why not be earning sign up bonuses vs. the 1-3% cashback you can get?

I agree, but we just don't have that much in bills, and most of them don't accept credit cards. We travel so much that we wouldn't be around to mail money orders or checks

 

[Hanoi IG]

Just one perspective: due to frequent devaluations, I tend to earn and spend. Meaning, if I am booking a trip, I would use my available points unless it is obviously not a good deal.

However, that said, I also collect because, even if I might have more than I need for awhile, it boils down to if you are going to spend the same amount of money per month on bills, utilities, etc., then why not be earning sign up bonuses vs. the 1-3% cashback you can get?

My other problem, which I think I mentioned in my original post, is that we are basically booked through May 2018 and have the points/miles I mentioned, plus what we will get at 3x for paying the final $24,000 of our cruise and the last $14,000 for the South Africa trip.

 

[newaliases]

My other problem, which I think I mentioned in my original post, is that we are basically booked through May 2018 and have the points/miles I mentioned, plus what we will get at 3x for paying the final $24,000 of our cruise and the last $14,000 for the South Africa trip.

Fair enough, but May 2018 isn't that far away. My guess is you're going to want to start planning the late 2018 vacations within half a year. I don't know how you spend the points but maybe consider upgrading the quality of the travel (business class? better hotels?) to burn some of those points.

Unrelated to the above, but just a few more ideas from left field!
- use some of those points to invite family or close friends (better if they are willing to chip in or cover something else, like the meals)
- donate to charity and write off
- at least with the UR, use for GC (although it'd almost be a crime to

 

[Hanoi IG]

Fair enough, but May 2018 isn't that far away. My guess is you're going to want to start planning the late 2018 vacations within half a year. I don't know how you spend the points but maybe consider upgrading the quality of the travel (business class? better hotels?) to burn some of those points.

Unrelated to the above, but just a few more ideas from left field!
- use some of those points to invite family or close friends (better if they are willing to chip in or cover something else, like the meals)
- donate to charity and write off
- at least with the UR, use for GC (although it'd almost be a crime to

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not so much looking to spend points. If I were, then it would be silly to get more cards and try to find ways to spend the bonus points lol. I'm just wondering if there is a time when there is no need to open new cards just to get bonus points. We pretty much only fly business as nearly all of our flights are international and our hotels are nearly all Sofitels except in Singapore and Bangkok where we stay at Mandarin Oriental. We do use Hilton as our backup program when there isn't a Sofitel but most places we go they exist.

We can no longer itemize so donations are (pun intended) pointless.

I'm sure I will find a use for these points/miles and the 120K UR that we will earn on the two trips already booked. I know that people often advise opening as many cards as you can to make these bonuses, but I don't have many places to spend except travel but I like the 3X from CSR and 5X on airfare from AX. Groceries I prefer to use the 6% cashback AX and gasoline is not really a factor as we have 1600 miles on our car which we bought in December.

 

[Matt]

Well, if you really aren't able to meet the minimum spend, it isn't a good idea to get a new card, but here's a few thoughts to bear in mind:

We have over 30K AS miles each and I have 145K SQ miles. We have 550K LifeMiles, over 150K MR and 341UR, not counting the points we will earn on $ already spent and the balances due on the cruise and safari. Also have over 40K Amtrak Rewards each and have to find time and a route on which to use them.

Allocating miles to goals for best value.
30K AS each isn't enough - you should look at increasing this to around 150K or more each. This gets you into the zone where you could each book at RT ticket in J/F (ballparking this here). AS miles should be used on International Business or First with free stopovers. With 30K all you can do is some domestic travel, that is a waste.

Use signup bonuses to accumulate miles and save cash
550K Lifemiles - I believe you bought these, if you earned more you wouldn't need to buy miles. Miles should shelter your cash, allowing you to travel for 'free' (deeply discounted is a better way to look at it). Buying miles is a viable strategy, but if you opportunistically apply for the best offers out there, you can reduce the need to do this.

Tickets aren't cheap
145K SQ and 150K MR is going to burn up in a single trip for two people. By the time you need to cash these in you may have seen them devalue further.

Frankly, based on your need, your probably 'good' in terms of miles if you really are all booked up, but you will find yourself burning them fast regardless. I try to be booked up for big trips as far ahead as I can, sometimes I can only think 6mths ahead, sometimes 12 months, but even when we are booked for 12 months of travel, there's often a little domestic trip.

In your case, you should be running comparisons between using CSR cash tickets for domestic and using British Airways on American or Southwest. You can also use the MR for Jetblue, but you don't want to eat into that too much since you will be left without enough miles to ticket a Business/First international trip on Singapore.

Lastly, don't forget that Delta and AA are very good miles still. Last year we needed to get to Santiago, Chile for our cruise around the Cape. AA miles allowed us to get 3 tickets in Business Class on the new LAN plane (they don't have First). We flew non stop on what is the best product available. We flew back from Buenos Aires using Delta Miles in DeltaOne.

Delta does devalue, but has an overly bad reputation in the miles blogging world. I personally find their flights to be pleasant, and still find value in their awards, even if they get increasingly expensive. I wouldn't want to sit on the miles (I tend to transfer in from MR) but I do like them.

 

[Hanoi IG]

Well, if you really aren't able to meet the minimum spend, it isn't a good idea to get a new card, but here's a few thoughts to bear in mind:



Allocating miles to goals for best value.
30K AS each isn't enough - you should look at increasing this to around 150K or more each. This gets you into the zone where you could each book at RT ticket in J/F (ballparking this here). AS miles should be used on International Business or First with free stopovers. With 30K all you can do is some domestic travel, that is a waste.

Use signup bonuses to accumulate miles and save cash
550K Lifemiles - I believe you bought these, if you earned more you wouldn't need to buy miles. Miles should shelter your cash, allowing you to travel for 'free' (deeply discounted is a better way to look at it). Buying miles is a viable strategy, but if you opportunistically apply for the best offers out there, you can reduce the need to do this.

Tickets aren't cheap
145K SQ and 150K MR is going to burn up in a single trip for two people. By the time you need to cash these in you may have seen them devalue further.

Frankly, based on your need, your probably 'good' in terms of miles if you really are all booked up, but you will find yourself burning them fast regardless. I try to be booked up for big trips as far ahead as I can, sometimes I can only think 6mths ahead, sometimes 12 months, but even when we are booked for 12 months of travel, there's often a little domestic trip.

In your case, you should be running comparisons between using CSR cash tickets for domestic and using British Airways on American or Southwest. You can also use the MR for Jetblue, but you don't want to eat into that too much since you will be left without enough miles to ticket a Business/First international trip on Singapore.

Lastly, don't forget that Delta and AA are very good miles still. Last year we needed to get to Santiago, Chile for our cruise around the Cape. AA miles allowed us to get 3 tickets in Business Class on the new LAN plane (they don't have First). We flew non stop on what is the best product available. We flew back from Buenos Aires using Delta Miles in DeltaOne.

Delta does devalue, but has an overly bad reputation in the miles blogging world. I personally find their flights to be pleasant, and still find value in their awards, even if they get increasingly expensive. I wouldn't want to sit on the miles (I tend to transfer in from MR) but I do like them.

Thanks. This is helpful. I do try to have a comprehensive plan and, after our World Cruise ends next May, I expect to book some other trips for the remainder of the year. Given our relationship with Sofitel, hotel points are of little interest. We stay at the one in NY 5-6 times a year and they always give us a rate way below what is available online even with the big sales that crop up. On our last several visits we have been given a lovely terrace suite so we are through shopping for hotels in New York, as well as Philly, DC and Chi and in Europe Munchen, Berlin, Budapest and Vienna.

My main thrust is airfares, preferably business and first on long hauls. Yes, we bought Avianca miles when they had the 225% deal and now have a surfeit. Last year we did ANA First NY-Tokyo RT and a bunch of shorter Asian flights with those miles. This year we did Emirates First JFK-DXB RT using our bonus UR and then four business class flights on TK using the rest of our LifeMiles.

I keep forgetting about these other airlines as we have never flown Jet Blue or Southwest or AA or DL, though we are going on AF a couple of times for which we paid cash since there was a business class sale and then a 20K MR bonus.

I realize that miles can go quickly. I wish there were a way to use points/miles for the car service. Our local airport(Harrisburg) has few flights to anywhere good and we don't really like flying to somewhere and laying over since the trip home would be bad(customs at point of entry then waiting for one of the dinky flight home, perhaps with a baggage charge). We have used JFK and EWR mostly figuring the car service is less than parking and it gets more difficult to drive 2-3 hours after a long flight.

I have to remember the 1.5 cents use of UR which can be better than transferring points to a program. I wonder if I could use them to buy upgrade?

The whole thing is fascinating and I learn more every day.

 

[Cytraveler]

Another thought on spending the miles. Sometimes people think that to "give" miles to some one in your family, you have to transfer the miles, which costs money, but you just have to book the ticket.

Research shows that giving to others makes us happier than doing something for ourselves. And you never know when you might need/want some points to use that way. I relative of mine contracted an aggressive cancer and went to Vienna for treatment. When I heard that she had to go back for another round, I figured I could help (like most of us, she couldn't afford J or F). If ever there was someone who could benefit from a lie-flat seat, it's her and her husband. Took a boatload of points (only had 4 weeks notice, needed only 1 stop from IND to VIE on exact dates both ways, without long layovers, so I had to pay for the domestic portion which didn't have award seats - yay Amex Bus Platinum with the 50% off on J!). But I can honestly say that it made me happier to book those flights for them than anything I've booked for myself. I know lots of other people have done similar things for family and friends; I'm nothing special that way. Or there might be a charity you care about that you can help. Even if you don't get a tax benefit, it's still benefiting someone.

You just never know what opportunities come up if you keep your ears open.

 

[Hanoi IG]

I guess I am a truly horrible person because, while I don't mind helping others, I prefer helping myself and my wife.

 

[Cytraveler]

Not at all; helping yourself and your wife is a good thing. I love using miles on me and my family.

I'm just offering another alternative if you like accumulating miles for its own sake (I do; it's a puzzle/game that I enjoy just for its own sake) but have additional miles you're not sure how to use.

 

[newaliases]

And this is timely

http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/2017/04/dont-forget-the-chase-travel-portal-when-booking-your-adventures-this-summer.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+frugaltravelguycom+(Frugal+Travel+Guy)

 

[R.R.]

I can honestly say that it made me happier to book those flights for them than anything I've booked for myself.

Agreed. Spouse has a twin who is Navy Enlisted, and several times, we have used our miles to buy an air ticket to facilitate travel to family gatherings on holidays or birthdays. Can't have a Twin Birthday Bash without both twins!

 

[MileHighYuppie]

This year we did Emirates First JFK-DXB RT using our bonus UR

Would love to hear this explained

 

[Hanoi IG]

Would love to hear this explained

I transferred them to Korean Air then booked the Emirates First Class

 

[SanDiego1K]

I'm an enthusiast of earning miles while I can. So many routes have dried up. Two years ago, I opened Citi checking accounts for a bonus using credit cards to fund. That door is closed. This year, I opened Fidelity accounts for both my husband and me to earn points. That door closed March 31 2017. Many of the opportunities to churn credit cards have vanished. I keep a spreadsheet on how many sign up bonuses I've gotten each year. 2014 - over 1MM (for 2 of us). 2015 - over 1MM. 2016 - slightly under 1MM. This year, it's looking pretty weak. Chase with its 5/24 rule means I can't get any more cards. I couldn't get that beautiful Chase Reserve with its 100K sign up bonus. AMEX allows one bonus per card per lifetime. I've exhausted most AMEX variants. So I get what I can when I can.

Last year, I got two Delta cards for me and one for my husband. I had virtually no Delta points. Thanks to getting those cards, we will fly free to Kalispell and back from Bozeman to visit Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks. Not only did I get free flights, but for some reason only understood by those who regularly redeem Delta points, i got flights each direction for 8K points or thereabouts. I found a sweet award redemption to fly to Liberia, Costa Rica, on Delta's nonstop flight in business this winter. I had absolutely no plans to use Delta points when I got those cards. By being an opportunist, I've saved roughly $1.5K. My annual fee for the three cards was under $200. Score! And I still have roughly half the points to use on future travel.

The cost to redeem keeps increasing. Airlines can change award rates overnight. United has a very customer unfriendly booking system as of October. I can no longer piece together legal international routings. I can only take what the United system allows. This means that it might take multiple tickets where one sufficed in the past, thus sharply increasing the points required.

I just accepted an offer to get an AMEX gold card, 25K points for $1K spend, no fee for the first year. I've had the card before but this one came without the language prohibiting me from getting another bonus. $1K in spend is easy and I'll get 25K Membership Reward points. Maybe it will be 3 or 4 years before I need those points, but why wouldn't I take them when they truly are free to acquire.

Everyone has to make their own decisions as to how much effort to expend to accumulate miles and points. I'm happy to have miles in a range of pots where I can keep piecing together aspirational travel for now. One day, this game will end but I sure will have enjoyed playing it.

 

[Hanoi IG]

I'm an enthusiast of earning miles while I can. So many routes have dried up. Two years ago, I opened Citi checking accounts for a bonus using credit cards to fund. That door is closed. This year, I opened Fidelity accounts for both my husband and me to earn points. That door closed March 31 2017. Many of the opportunities to churn credit cards have vanished. I keep a spreadsheet on how many sign up bonuses I've gotten each year. 2014 - over 1MM (for 2 of us). 2015 - over 1MM. 2016 - slightly under 1MM. This year, it's looking pretty weak. Chase with its 5/24 rule means I can't get any more cards. I couldn't get that beautiful Chase Reserve with its 100K sign up bonus. AMEX allows one bonus per card per lifetime. I've exhausted most AMEX variants. So I get what I can when I can.

Last year, I got two Delta cards for me and one for my husband. I had virtually no Delta points. Thanks to getting those cards, we will fly free to Kalispell and back from Bozeman to visit Glacier and Yosemite National Parks. Not only did I get free flights, but for some reason only understood by those who regularly redeem Delta points, i got flights each direction for 8K points or thereabouts. I found a sweet award redemption to fly to Liberia, Costa Rica, on Delta's nonstop flight in business this winter. I had absolutely no plans to use Delta points when I got those cards. By being an opportunist, I've saved roughly $1.5K. My annual fee for the three cards was under $200. Score!

The cost to redeem keeps increasing. Airlines can change award rates overnight. United has a very customer unfriendly booking system as of October. I can no longer piece together legal international routings. I can only take what the United system allows. This means that it might take multiple tickets where one sufficed in the past, thus sharply increasing the points required.

I just accepted an offer to get an AMEX gold card, 25K points for $1K spend, no fee for the first year. I've had the card before but this one came without the language prohibiting me from getting another bonus. $1K in spend is easy and I'll get 25K Membership Reward points. Maybe it will be 3 or 4 years before I need those points, but why wouldn't I take them when they truly are free to acquire.

Everyone has to make their own decisions as to how much effort to expend to accumulate miles and points. I'm happy to have miles in a range of pots where I can keep piecing together aspirational travel for now. One day, this game will end but I sure will have enjoyed playing it.

I agree that if you don't accumulate points/miles you won't have them to spend. I'm just saying that two people who are already booked for the next year and who have and will accumulate Chase UR and AX MR in the course of that period, plus some Hilton and already have nearly 500K Avianca it MAY not be sensible to open more cards. Just like we are told not to buy miles on spec, I'm thinking it may not be so sensible to open cards and have to search for things to buy to make the spend. Wondered what people thought. Since Chase UR can buy mileage earning travel for $0.015/point that is another use. Our cable and mobile bills are already paid months in advance so I'd have to get creative to earn more bonuses.

 

[Matt]

I agree that if you don't accumulate points/miles you won't have them to spend. I'm just saying that two people who are already booked for the next year and who have and will accumulate Chase UR and AX MR in the course of that period, plus some Hilton and already have nearly 500K Avianca it MAY not be sensible to open more cards. Just like we are told not to buy miles on spec, I'm thinking it may not be so sensible to open cards and have to search for things to buy to make the spend. Wondered what people thought. Since Chase UR can buy mileage earning travel for $0.015/point that is another use. Our cable and mobile bills are already paid months in advance so I'd have to get creative to earn more bonuses.

As you mentioned, you shouldn't buy miles on Spec, so your 500K Lifemiles were a mistake. If you hadn't bought the miles, you'd probably be thinking about a card or two. But since the deed is done, I can see why you aren't aggressively looking.

The additional consideration:

URs can be used at the 1.5cent level, but that is cannibalization. It prevents you from staying in Hyatt, or flying on their Partners. You would be better to bring in a new points currency that you haven't truly considered to take up as much of the 'cash buying' options that you can find. This then puts up a barrier between your spending needs and your UR asset.

For me, I have done this two ways:

• Flexperks, which offers 20000 pts for a $400 flight
• Altitude Reserve, which offers 1.5cents per point for travel purchases (like the UR, but allowing you to keep your UR)

I would keep an eye on the latter of the two if I were you. You may find that you need to book a domestic flight/hotel for a short weekend trip, and having a new asset to cover those needs would be useful. You may wish to wait until next year, or maybe just pull the trigger now.

Personally, the Altitude Reserve card is the most amazing card I could hope for, but that is because I get free MS on free cruises, even without that, I think there is value in bagging the 50K signup bonus which is worth $750 in exchange for the $400 annual fee (which comes with $325 travel credit).

If spend is a problem, I just met a $3K minimum spend in about 3 minutes online using Kiva. There is risk of loss with Kiva (loans defaulting) so I disburse the loan over multiple people, you can go as diverse as $25 per borrower to help with that. Kiva should then pay you back over a period of time that you select, from 6-8mths to 3yrs.

https://www.kiva.org/team/giverocity

 

[knick1959]

I agree that if you don't accumulate points/miles you won't have them to spend. I'm just saying that two people who are already booked for the next year and who have and will accumulate Chase UR and AX MR in the course of that period, plus some Hilton and already have nearly 500K Avianca it MAY not be sensible to open more cards. Just like we are told not to buy miles on spec, I'm thinking it may not be so sensible to open cards and have to search for things to buy to make the spend. Wondered what people thought. Since Chase UR can buy mileage earning travel for $0.015/point that is another use. Our cable and mobile bills are already paid months in advance so I'd have to get creative to earn more bonuses.

I typically stay "booked for the next 12 months", except that this next year (2018) I am not. This is simply because of my plan to maximize my first and probably only Southwest Companion Pass, good through next year. Their schedule only goes 5-6 months out, so I'm actually having some anxiety NOT being able to plan a full year out.

What seems to be the norm and has worked for me is that most other airlines open up their schedules 11 months in advance and awards tend to be available right then (and can disappear quickly!) Now, there are ways to score award flights throughout time, but waiting until the last minute is not something I can do when booking around 2 work schedules. So, for me, I need to be ready with a plan 11 months ahead of time. And when the time approaches to book flights, it helps if I have enough miles/points to check multiple airlines/networks.

So, next year is a SW-oriented year for me. That will include Belize and perhaps one other international trip, but mostly domestic and we've already grown a tad spontaneous with small trips this year using the pass. However, the plan is to go to SE Asia in Jan 2019. Which means I need to be shopping for flights in Jan/Feb 2018 ... not too far off from now! And I don't yet have a plan; I need to post some questions here somewhere. Anyway, I know I can use a number of carriers to get there. Having enough miles (I think) in 4 programs (or transferable to) will up the odds that I can find a convenient set of flights in J.

Which is why I try to stock up on points that I am not sure I will need. I believe I will eventually find a way to use them, whether they devalue over time or not.

Someone above mentioned MS and this is the way folks generate spend (I call it Fake Spend often to my coworkers and wife) once they run out of real spend to apply to their cards. While links were provided, the basics are you find a way to buy things on your credit card that you can easily turn back into cash. Reselling isn't for me and I don't personally see this as MS. But buying giftcards and finding ways to cycle these back into $$$ to pay the resulting credit card bill? That's what I do to supplement my real spend and even more often this is how I meet minimum spend on new CC's to get the bonus. If you have the time and energy to do THIS, the other links provided before will get you started.

 

[Hanoi IG]

As you mentioned, you shouldn't buy miles on Spec, so your 500K Lifemiles were a mistake. If you hadn't bought the miles, you'd probably be thinking about a card or two. But since the deed is done, I can see why you aren't aggressively looking.

The additional consideration:

URs can be used at the 1.5cent level, but that is cannibalization. It prevents you from staying in Hyatt, or flying on their Partners. You would be better to bring in a new points currency that you haven't truly considered to take up as much of the 'cash buying' options that you can find. This then puts up a barrier between your spending needs and your UR asset.

For me, I have done this two ways:

• Flexperks, which offers 20000 pts for a $400 flight
• Altitude Reserve, which offers 1.5cents per point for travel purchases (like the UR, but allowing you to keep your UR)

I would keep an eye on the latter of the two if I were you. You may find that you need to book a domestic flight/hotel for a short weekend trip, and having a new asset to cover those needs would be useful. You may wish to wait until next year, or maybe just pull the trigger now.

Personally, the Altitude Reserve card is the most amazing card I could hope for, but that is because I get free MS on free cruises, even without that, I think there is value in bagging the 50K signup bonus which is worth $750 in exchange for the $400 annual fee (which comes with $325 travel credit).

If spend is a problem, I just met a $3K minimum spend in about 3 minutes online using Kiva. There is risk of loss with Kiva (loans defaulting) so I disburse the loan over multiple people, you can go as diverse as $25 per borrower to help with that. Kiva should then pay you back over a period of time that you select, from 6-8mths to 3yrs.

https://www.kiva.org/team/giverocity

I'm not sure about this KIVA but I guess it is something. Not sure LifeMiles was a mistake. We bought some the year before and got free 1st ANA and 6 flights intra Asia when we were Star alliance gold which of course we lost once we got all these award flights. Also had 4 business class flights in Middle East and Morocco. We are strongly inclined towards Star Alliance and can find uses by summer of 2018. I don't forsee any domestic travel but you never know. Our Hershey Bears sometimes have playoff games out of the area. I don't really think we would be staying in a Hyatt although I guess it's a possibility. How do you get free cruises? And what is free MS on a cruise? We have only taken a few cruises-Viking River, Viking Ocean and now this huge Viking world Cruise. Not much to spend on that one as all drinks included, all gratuities(I know, I'll tip some but won't have the add on $30/day or whatever it is.) free business class air and a few thousand in credits. Free excursions every port though there may be some for purchase that we might like.

BTW why do you say buying LifeMiles would stop me from getting a new card for bonus. I bought them with the Avianca card so didn't waste any spend. When they have the 225% deal I think it can be worthwhile, though of course you can't use on SQ.

Hotels are problematic since we tend to go to the same places often where we are tied in to Sofitel. In about six cities, we always stay there as we are given pretty much automatic big upgrades, not the slightly bigger room but huge suites for price of cheapest room. I know there are no free nights but we will hit Platinum for next year on our next stay and have about 2000E worth of points that we can use for our next several stays.

Thanks for the input. I guess another card or 2 couldnt hurt. Our FICO's are both in the 800s so except for 5/24 I don't expect to get turned down.

 

[Hanoi IG]

I typically stay "booked for the next 12 months", except that this next year (2018) I am not. This is simply because of my plan to maximize my first and probably only Southwest Companion Pass, good through next year. Their schedule only goes 5-6 months out, so I'm actually having some anxiety NOT being able to plan a full year out.

What seems to be the norm and has worked for me is that most other airlines open up their schedules 11 months in advance and awards tend to be available right then (and can disappear quickly!) Now, there are ways to score award flights throughout time, but waiting until the last minute is not something I can do when booking around 2 work schedules. So, for me, I need to be ready with a plan 11 months ahead of time. And when the time approaches to book flights, it helps if I have enough miles/points to check multiple airlines/networks.

So, next year is a SW-oriented year for me. That will include Belize and perhaps one other international trip, but mostly domestic and we've already grown a tad spontaneous with small trips this year using the pass. However, the plan is to go to SE Asia in Jan 2019. Which means I need to be shopping for flights in Jan/Feb 2018 ... not too far off from now! And I don't yet have a plan; I need to post some questions here somewhere. Anyway, I know I can use a number of carriers to get there. Having enough miles (I think) in 4 programs (or transferable to) will up the odds that I can find a convenient set of flights in J.

Which is why I try to stock up on points that I am not sure I will need. I believe I will eventually find a way to use them, whether they devalue over time or not.

Someone above mentioned MS and this is the way folks generate spend (I call it Fake Spend often to my coworkers and wife) once they run out of real spend to apply to their cards. While links were provided, the basics are you find a way to buy things on your credit card that you can easily turn back into cash. Reselling isn't for me and I don't personally see this as MS. But buying giftcards and finding ways to cycle these back into $$$ to pay the resulting credit card bill? That's what I do to supplement my real spend and even more often this is how I meet minimum spend on new CC's to get the bonus. If you have the time and energy to do THIS, the other links provided before will get you started.

Thanks but I know this isn't for us. We are old and in a good enough financial position(though of course Trump's antics could change that in a hurry) that we don't need to spend our time(my time actually as my wife has no interest) wheeling and dealing. We'd be much better off if the interest rate soared as we could put some $ into safe places to get decent return but it is what it is.

I enjoy the points/miles because why not, but we have our preferences and, in my wife's case, they are a bit rigid: i.e, Business or better on long hauls(10 hours plus) Sofitels in our cities where we are well known, Mandarin Oriental in Singapore and Bangkok and Hampton Inn when driving through the US. FWIW we also have $200 each(our AX travel credit) stashed in UA accounts as we had to use or lose. We are old so don't know how many more traveling years we have in us. After we get back from our 141 day world cruise in May 2018, I have to see if we need to stay home at all.

 

[Matt]

Not sure LifeMiles was a mistake. We bought some the year before and got free 1st ANA and 6 flights intra Asia when we were Star alliance gold which of course we lost once we got all these award flights. Also had 4 business class flights in Middle East and Morocco.

The ones you redeemed for are exceptional value and I agree entirely. The fact that you're holding 500K in excess of what you need for you current travel plans exposes you to devaluation. Miles are a promissory note for future travel, but with no guarantee you can use them.

• Avianca could devalue several times between now and then, making your valuation 1/4 of what you thought.
• Avianca could leave Star Alliance, and force you to use them only on Avianca metal.
• Etc

You've got nothing but a liability until you redeem them for travel.

I don't really think we would be staying in a Hyatt although I guess it's a possibility.

Park Hyatts are nice, I have to say that the ones I've stayed in at Milan, Tokyo, Buenos Aires have been solid. Other properties are decent enough in a pinch if you are fancy.

How do you get free cruises? And what is free MS on a cruise?

I gamed a casino loyalty program, so they give me free things. It isn't something that is really replicable unless you know a ton about gambling, are willing to lose money, etc. Free MS means that I can now withdraw from $3K upwards per day on the cruise and it charges as Travel, earning 4.5 cents on the Altitude card, or 3x on the TYP card.

BTW why do you say buying LifeMiles would stop me from getting a new card for bonus. I bought them with the Avianca card so didn't waste any spend.

I say it because if you were in the same boat today, minus that glut of points you may feel more inclined to earn more. The 500K lifemiles are a large cushion. But rather than deplete then buy again, might be worth the occasional card to keep things humming along.

 

[Hanoi IG]

Right. I actually would have used the Life Miles(120K at least were the bonuses for our spending $1000 on the Avianca cards) for two trips to France but I chose to pay cash when AF had a Biz class sale and then for Premium Economy when AX offered 20K bonus points for I think $1000 spend.