Perpetual Cruising

[MilesAddict]

Matt posted today about moving onto a cruise ship full time: http://saverocity.com/travel/retiring-cruise-ship/

I thought it might be nice to open up a discussion of how to hack cruise ship living to keep costs manageable.

MJ on travel did a series on cruising for free for 30 days (http://mjontravel.boardingarea.com/2013/10/16/on-points-boat-drinks-and-turning-things-up-a-notch/) It had some good ideas on leveraging credit card rewards.

One thing I've looked into is the shareholder benefits on Carnival Corp lines (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=140690&p=irol-sharebenefit) and Royal Caribbean lines (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=103045&p=irol-shareholderbenefit). Both give on-board cred (OBC) based on the number of days in the cruise for shareholders owning 100 or more shares. From what I've read Royal Caribbean's discount generally can't be combined with other discounts while Carnival's can. It wouldn't be worth it for the one cruise a year crowd, but if living on ships - it could be a big saver. I don't think you could use it to pay for gratuities, but it can be used for bar bills or shopping on the ships. And you may be able to cash it out through the casino (note: I have not tested this nor read of anyone testing this for the shareholder benefit).

 

[plane2port]

Thanks for starting a thread about Matt's article. I am looking forward to continuing the conversation here.

I bought 100 shares of Carnival stock before my last carnival cruise. I think I spent about $30/share, and got $100 on board credit. That's already a 3% "dividend," not counting the real stock dividend. You certainly can use it to pay gratuities. It goes into your shipboard account, and so therefore can be used for any charges you incur on the ship.

Don't have any RCCL yet, but may buy some before my next cruise with them. Their stock is more volatile than CCL, and doesn't pay as good a dividend.

I had a Norwegian credit card back when they were giving 3 cruise points per dollar. I earned enough points to take a free 7 day cruise for 2. I wish I knew then what I know now, because I could for sure have earned enough points to be a full time cruiser! Shortly after I took that cruise, they stopped the 3X points.

 

[Matt]

Well, I don't want to pull rank on MJ, but my longest cruise was 30+ days, and my longest time cruising on one ship was 8 months Though in fairness he has me beat easily on actually enjoyable cruising vs working my butt off...

Strictly speaking, for me to do this for real I would need to travel the world on ships - I could do the Caribbean for a year or so, but I've been to most ports there 100 times already. However, that 30 day went from Boston, via Greenland, Iceland, the Shetland Islands, over to Scandanvia, then England and France (and maybe some others) my fridge was like a WholeFoods wet dream... cheese and wine and snacks from every little town.

Just amazing.

And also, if you are willing to work a little, there are a lot of opportunities to be had here. You could build a serious business with a little online presence and doing tours, it could be walking tours, shopping tours (kickbacks) dive groups, anything basically - but you might have to watch out how you meet the PAX as Shorex might get a bit snotty.

Allison and I half joked a lot about going back several times, but I would struggle with working in a chain of command these days. Frankly, it's not completely off the table for us to just go and do this once the little one is of walking age

 

[Matt]

Thanks for starting a thread about Matt's article. I am looking forward to continuing the conversation here.

I bought 100 shares of Carnival stock before my last carnival cruise. I think I spent about $30/share, and got $100 on board credit. That's already a 3% "dividend," not counting the real stock dividend. You certainly can use it to pay gratuities. It goes into your shipboard account, and so therefore can be used for any charges you incur on the ship.

Don't have any RCCL yet, but may buy some before my next cruise with them. Their stock is more volatile than CCL, and doesn't pay as good a dividend.

I had a Norwegian credit card back when they were giving 3 cruise points per dollar. I earned enough points to take a free 7 day cruise for 2. I wish I knew then what I know now, because I could for sure have earned enough points to be a full time cruiser! Shortly after I took that cruise, they stopped the 3X points.

I noticed some gambling questions in your other post. In case you weren't aware, my job was in the Casino...

On CCL (and the corporation) there was a Black and Blue list we would cross check each cruise. This is issued by some US based gaming company. Black listed players were those who had been caught doing serious offences, counting, cheating, or acts of violence resulting in a casino ban. It seems that casinos band together to list such players in a central database. These guys we woudn't allow play (never found one though) Bluelisted were players who weren't quite that bad, but had some 'issues' those were to be watched very closely.

We would cross check the manifest for these players, and should we get a possible match (often just name alone) we would flag them. Players stick out on a cruise, and I would argue that cruise ship casino staff are well trained, and maybe sharper than what you find in the US (though they are degrading quality).

As a table player you would be noticed, especially as a repeat cruiser. As a poker player you might be able to fly under the radar, and if you can find a way to develop private games you could have an angle. Again, any house run games and they would know you very quickly.

One thing to note is that the Casinos do have loyalty programs distinct from the Cruise loyalty programs, they would stack. That would mean once you started earning status on both you would have a lot of free things - drinks, dinner, cocktail parties, once you hit top tier status you would have something each night (when you factor in cabin treats too) so booze would be removed from costs.

 

[MilesAddict]

I bought 100 shares of Carnival stock before my last carnival cruise. I think I spent about $30/share, and got $100 on board credit. That's already a 3% "dividend," not counting the real stock dividend. You certainly can use it to pay gratuities. It goes into your shipboard account, and so therefore can be used for any charges you incur on the ship.

So you were successfully able to use the CCL shareholder bonus to pay for gratuities? The terms and conditions say that it can't be used for this, but I did wonder if there system would be smart enough to differentiate once it was added to the account as OBC.

Well, I don't want to pull rank on MJ, but my longest cruise was 30+ days, and my longest time cruising on one ship was 8 months Though in fairness he has me beat easily on actually enjoyable cruising vs working my butt off...

Strictly speaking, for me to do this for real I would need to travel the world on ships - I could do the Caribbean for a year or so, but I've been to most ports there 100 times already. However, that 30 day went from Boston, via Greenland, Iceland, the Shetland Islands, over to Scandanvia, then England and France (and maybe some others) my fridge was like a WholeFoods wet dream... cheese and wine and snacks from every little town.

Just amazing.

And also, if you are willing to work a little, there are a lot of opportunities to be had here. You could build a serious business with a little online presence and doing tours, it could be walking tours, shopping tours (kickbacks) dive groups, anything basically - but you might have to watch out how you meet the PAX as Shorex might get a bit snotty.

I'm pretty sure you are always allowed to pull rank on your own forums. And you have a legitimate case for rank regardless in this instance. But MJ is the only blogger I've found out there talking about how to apply travel hacking to cruises. I follow cruisecritic message boards a bit, but think I need to find some additional sources to follow.

The one angle that I hadn't thought through much was the monetization of cruise ship life -- I had always imagined this as a retirement-type deal. I'd thought about building a blog about it, but that was always imagined as more of a lifestyle blog (because if I'm living on ships, I'm damned well passionate about it and would want to share) rather than a business venture.

You could also start to put together group cruises - either focused on shore excursions activities (a foodie tour of Europe) or lectures on ship (I'm imagining something like an FTU on a cruise ship). You'd have to have an established audience to sell to, but I think there could be a viable business plan in this.

 

[smittytabb]

You could also start to put together group cruises - either focused on shore excursions activities (a foodie tour of Europe) or lectures on ship (I'm imagining something like an FTU on a cruise ship). You'd have to have an established audience to sell to, but I think there could be a viable business plan in this.

Yes, I was certified as an international tour manager on a cruise. I took the entire course during the cruise while at sea and was able to get a discount on the cabin as well as enjoy taking cruise excursions while at port. Pretty sweet business model.

 

[plane2port]

I noticed some gambling questions in your other post. In case you weren't aware, my job was in the Casino...

On CCL (and the corporation) there was a Black and Blue list we would cross check each cruise. This is issued by some US based gaming company. Black listed players were those who had been caught doing serious offences, counting, cheating, or acts of violence resulting in a casino ban. It seems that casinos band together to list such players in a central database. These guys we woudn't allow play (never found one though) Bluelisted were players who weren't quite that bad, but had some 'issues' those were to be watched very closely.

We would cross check the manifest for these players, and should we get a possible match (often just name alone) we would flag them. Players stick out on a cruise, and I would argue that cruise ship casino staff are well trained, and maybe sharper than what you find in the US (though they are degrading quality).

As a table player you would be noticed, especially as a repeat cruiser. As a poker player you might be able to fly under the radar, and if you can find a way to develop private games you could have an angle. Again, any house run games and they would know you very quickly.

One thing to note is that the Casinos do have loyalty programs distinct from the Cruise loyalty programs, they would stack. That would mean once you started earning status on both you would have a lot of free things - drinks, dinner, cocktail parties, once you hit top tier status you would have something each night (when you factor in cabin treats too) so booze would be removed from costs.

Very, very interesting info, Matt, thanks.

Is there any way to find out if you are on this list? If you have been kicked out of a few casinos in Las Vegas for counting cards then are you probably on this list? Interesting that card counting and acts of violence are on the same list. What kinds of players are on the Blue List? People who win more than lose?

 

[Matt]

Very, very interesting info, Matt, thanks.

Is there any way to find out if you are on this list? If you have been kicked out of a few casinos in Las Vegas for counting cards then are you probably on this list? Interesting that card counting and acts of violence are on the same list. What kinds of players are on the Blue List? People who win more than lose?

It's been a while.. the violence may have been on the Blue - but I think Blue was certainly people to keep an eye on - it wasn't about what you win or lose. I think general aggressiveness etc. Not sure that you would be able to access that list.

 

[FlyinFirst]

I would love to move onto this full time...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_The_World

 

[MilesAddict]

I would love to move onto this full time...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_The_World

That is my if I win the lottery plan. Of course, I don't play the lottery, but it's still nice to dream.

Was home from work today sick. In between epic napping, I kept looking at cruises. I blame this thread.

 

[Matt]

I've been in port with The World, never been onboard though... but at those prices (700K-10M buy in, plus 10% maintenance) I reckon you could do pretty well on other fancy lines... I think it might just be a bit too snobby for me, and as I'd be at the bottom end of the chain in terms of buy in, that would irritate the Brit in me.

 

[Barefootwoman]

Matt, I like the way you think, lol. I guess because I've been rolling these same thoughts around in my head for awhile. I sold my house and downsized my possessions all with an eye toward more travel and eventually full time travel in a few years when I retire early.

Random comments:

I have an early retired friend who cruises several times/year. He tells me that once you get on their super secret frequent cruiser list, they send you amazing discount offers.

I'm thinking of doing some part time, casual tax consulting work in retirement, perhaps one could offer to give a tax lecture (or dance lessons or whatever) in exchange for a decent discount.

I understand that repositioning cruises are already discounted.

As far as using AirBnB to make money on one's residence, I think that could be tough while cruising, since it's like hotel concept where someone kind of needs to be there to monitor the guest comings and goings. Maybe a better option would be to rent the residence like a regular full time rental and use a property manager to handle it while you are gone.

 

[MJonTravel]

Matt, you can pull rank anytime you want. My hat is off to you for working on a ship! I met a gentleman on Royal Caribbean who essentially lives on ships full time. He actually owns a home in Miami. You'll frequently find him on Majesty of the Seas, but he sometimes joins other ships from time to time. He does a bit of work (financial management) that just requires some internet time each day, but not that much.

The bride and I have long term plans for living between the ports of Miami and Fort Lauderdale so our commute to port will be short. The shareholder thing is interesting to me. We mainly cruise RCL and X, and the lack of combinability of benefits is a drag. Carnival Corp is a much better deal in that regard. On the other hand, RCL turned out to be a marvelous investment. I bought it at 8.97 (financial crisis days), and it's at 64.59 and climbing right now.

There are some limited MS opportunities at sea that involve the casino, but as has already been mentioned - I think they'd get wise to you pretty fast if you're onboard for many weeks at a time.

 

[Dangjr213]

I can confirm the CCL shareholder benefit can be used to pay down the gratuities as long as they are added to your Sign and Sail card and not paid for at the time of booking. I've used the CCL shareholder benefit 8 times now.

I purchased my shares right after the Concordia accident when share prices plummeted.

 

[MilesAddict]

The bride and I have long term plans for living between the ports of Miami and Fort Lauderdale so our commute to port will be short. The shareholder thing is interesting to me. We mainly cruise RCL and X, and the lack of combinability of benefits is a drag. Carnival Corp is a much better deal in that regard.

There are some limited MS opportunities at sea that involve the casino, but as has already been mentioned - I think they'd get wise to you pretty fast if you're onboard for many weeks at a time.

Glad you joined the conversation. I enjoy your cruise reviews - I'm a Majesty OTS fan --- could spend a few months doing nothing but cruising the Bahamas.

I can confirm the CCL shareholder benefit can be used to pay down the gratuities as long as they are added to your Sign and Sail card and not paid for at the time of booking. I've used the CCL shareholder benefit 8 times now.

Excellent news! I'll definitely have to do this when I get ready to start cruising more. Does anyone know if one can hold the shares in an IRA or does it need to be in a taxable account?

Carnival's Shareholder Discount is good on Carnival, Princess, Holland America, Seabourn, Cunard, Costa, Aida, Ibero, and P&O.

• Cruises less than 6 days - $50
• Cruises between 7 and 13 days - $100
• Cruises more than 14 days - $250

 

[Dangjr213]

My shares are in a brokerage IRA with USAA. I just print out a statement showing I own the 100 shares.

 

[Annie H.]

City officials in the towns around here in No. CA wine county actually track short term rentals and check out Vbro and Airbnb and use the listings to shut people down. One town even has an online form for folks to report their neighbors. Cities don't like missing out on their 12 to 18 percent "bed" taxes.

 

[MilesAddict]

My shares are in a brokerage IRA with USAA. I just print out a statement showing I own the 100 shares.

Thanks! I'm going to start tracking CCL shares. Should have jumped on the stock purchase post-Concordia.

 

[MilesAddict]

A thought occurred to me last night (this cruising thing is starting to eat up mental bandwidth). I wonder if it would be possible to become a cruise travel agent prior to sailing. You could handle your own bookings, maybe make some extra money doing other's bookings (with the aid of a VA?), and possibly get some travel perks/access to TA rates.

 

[smittytabb]

A thought occurred to me last night (this cruising thing is starting to eat up mental bandwidth). I wonder if it would be possible to become a cruise travel agent prior to sailing. You could handle your own bookings, maybe make some extra money doing other's bookings (with the aid of a VA?), and possibly get some travel perks/access to TA rates.

I actually recently met someone on a cruise who did just that.

 

[Dangjr213]

A thought occurred to me last night (this cruising thing is starting to eat up mental bandwidth). I wonder if it would be possible to become a cruise travel agent prior to sailing. You could handle your own bookings, maybe make some extra money doing other's bookings (with the aid of a VA?), and possibly get some travel perks/access to TA rates.

We've helped so many people pick out cruises I've lightly thought about this a couple of times. All the TA routes I looked at were franchise based with yearly fees so I passed. I'm attending the national GBTA convention next year and was planing on getting some info about having my wife become a TA.

 

[Dangjr213]

Will spin off into a new thread as I start doing more research. I manage travel for my company so I meet with travel vendors all the time. One of our local Hytatt Places brought me a folder today and there were a bunch of pamphlets (one of which I don't think she meant to include).

It was one aimed at travel agents. Reading through it, hyatt has special TA rates that are gold passport eligible stays (discounts seem to be based on availability)

Talking to our agency, the CCL TA rates are not very discounted, but she raved about the last minute tour packages that can be 90% off retail. They get rid of distressed inventory and gain an advocate at the same time so they offer rock bottom rates.

 

[MilesAddict]

Talking to our agency, the CCL TA rates are not very discounted, but she raved about the last minute tour packages that can be 90% off retail. They get rid of distressed inventory and gain an advocate at the same time so they offer rock bottom rates.

Very interesting. I've done some preliminary research about signing up with a Host Agency to be a TA. The algorithms are all pretty hush/hush, but the numbers I've seen are that the commission on a cruise fare runs about 10-15%. The commission is then split by the host agency and the TA with the TA getting 50-70% depending on agency. I know you (usually) have to do this for a certain amount of time or sell a certain amount before you can get IATA number which gives you access to the discounts and I don't know the details. It certainly could be a very interesting way to save a lot of money through discounts and make some money through acting as an agent for other's bookings.

 

[Dangjr213]

To sell for carnival, all you need is an ARC number which is the easiest/cheapest to get. $300 upfront, $200 yearly. It appears to put you in the 10% commission range with Carnival. It is a tired structure from 10-16%.

As for IATA number it appears the magic number is $5000 in commissions during a rolling 12 months. Price tag is $10k without a host agency.

As for host agencies I'm most interested in Cruise Planners (an Amex Travel Company). You can sell all travel and accept MRs as a form of payment. upfront franchise fees range from $10k for new TAs, $8k for veterans, and $500 for agents with existing IATA numbers. Their cut is 3% but it appears you still end up better because of their volume. They are in the 16% commission tier with Carnival so you net 13% instead of 10% as an independent.