mLife Math – the bet, the ROI, and the next step

Matt

Administrator
Staff member


Whenever I get a new offer through from mLife I want to write about the gig again. The reason is that it’s just working.. and better than expected. I’m going to try to explain again how it works, as some people are still confused, and the run down the math via Net Present Value of the original investment.

The investment


I committed to spending $4,000 at Aria during TravelCon. The theory was that I wanted to present myself as being a big player, and would reap rewards beyond the program rules. The $4,000 was an investment in the theory that I could create enough interest in me to receive upfront comps in advance of that value. I described it as a bond, which kicks off ‘coupon payments’.

People asked me a lot of questions about the $4,000 and the word investment. To try to frame it correctly, my goal was to try to lose the entire $4,000 in as fast a slow way as possible. I know this sounds odd, but think of the word ‘bittersweet’ and you’ll get the idea.

Casino gambling is very misunderstood, the way to game it requires a real understanding of probability and variance. The best way to explain it is that if you find the best game in the house, with a 99.9% (or higher) return, you can still lose exactly 100% of what you bet. That’s true even if the return is 150%.

How to lose $4,000


If I wanted to lose $4,000 in an even manner over 2 days, I could simply find a slot machine that was $4 per spin, and spin it 1000 times, 500 on day 1, 500 on day 2. That could do the trick. Betting any higher could result in losing faster. The challenge is that time is limited. In Vegas I only had a little time to create a good impression. Furthermore, they calculate on a per diem basis (this catches many people) and it is triggered by any use of your card. What many people mess up on is that they cash in a few comp dollars on the day of departure, thus making a 3 day trip into 3 comp divisor days. If they walked without cashing their comp, they have 2 comp divisor days.

The divisor creates a marked number for you, the ADT (average daily theoretical win) which is a baseline for many comp equations.

An example


If I spend $4,000 over 2 days I get at worst 1000 $4 spins, my daily average is $2,000 in spins. If I decide to cash in the comps I earned for that on day 3 it then divides my value per diem to $1333. Comps are based on that number, so it is important to not drop it. Walking out of the casino with some unredeemed comps would show me as a $2000 player. The comps do expire (6-12 months depending on tier) but it can be worth the risk.

Coin in (the basis for comps) doesn’t care if you win or lose. If I were to play a $1000 slot machine and put $1000 in it on the first spin, and keep winning $1000 per spin, I would have a massive coin in. 100 spins would equal $100K and put me instantly into mLife Platinum status from zero. However, if just one spin doesn’t pay out $1,000 I’d need more cashflow.

The challenge for Vegas was that time was against me, so I took on a lot of risk, more towards the $1000 example above, but I thought it might pay off, and also I helped goose the payoff by creating room charges that could be wiped clear (in theory).

This would mean if I failed miserably, and lost $4,000 cold, hopefully I could reclaim $800 or so on day 1, and the rest of the $3,200 as fast as possible. The reason for the pace is that duration matters both in terms of the required rate of return of the $4,000, but also in how quickly they catch on that I don’t play big next time around, and pull further offers.

Note, as a hedge, I set stop loss limits at $2500 on day 1 and $1500 on day 2 of my trip. The rationale here was that I was able to demonstrate I’m ok with losing $2500, but in the end I got ‘fed up of losing on your crappy machines’. I felt the random tilt towards day 1 vs planning to lose $2K per diem gave me an edge.

The math


I recently explained how you can calculate value from XNPV. It’s a super important concept for any investor. I want to show it in action here for the mLife gig. I’m going to use a $4,000 investment. I’m also going to have to try to assign a value to the comps I’ve been offered since Vegas:

Comped bill for the trip

  • Aria room and dinner, snacks, lunch, spa etc comped for the trip
    • Retail value $1,000 my value $800
The Cove Atlantis

  • 4 Nights upfront comped.
  • $300 resort credit
  • $200 slot play
    • Retail value $3,000-4,000 my value $1,000
Cruise on Royal or Celebrity

  • 3-7 nights inside cabin to Caribbean or Bahamas
    • Retail value $2,200 my value $1,000
mLife Comp Beau Rivage

  • comp flights for 2 pax to Biloxi
  • comp room (several nights)
  • $800 slot play
    • Retail value $1,200 my value $600
mLife Comp ‘Big Game Day package’

  • Suite for 3 nights and entry to a debaucherous Super bowl event with food and beverage
    • Retail value $1,700, my value $500
mlife Comp Vegas

  • Suite for 3 nights
  • $500 slot play
  • $400 resort credit
    • Retail value $2,200, my value $1,000
Note that all offers are current and active, so it would be best to ‘cash them in’ all at once, for various future dates. I tried to put realistic, yet ‘rough’ pricing on them. Since they are all Q1 events, that impacts the Net Present Value (a fast ROI). Since I’ve not booked any of them, I’ve spread them over 1 per month time frames, taking them sooner makes their value greater.

As you can see, based on the number of offers from mLife (and how I valued them) the result is a positive $886. Making this quite a solid investment..



Discount value



This is where it gets personal. You have to look at the offers and decide how much to deduct (or to add) for someone crafting the reality of your travel. For some, this screams limitation, but for others, having offers mailed to you that may fit your wishes is a great thing. As I mentioned during my presentation, I love to get the option to say ‘no way’ and you cannot say that without options.

The price of saying no


Let’s pretend I’m not stoked about going to Biloxi, what would that do to the ROI?


Not going to be a part of Deliverance

My NPV drops to $289.. still ahead (conceptually anyways..)

What if I don’t take the Superbowl too?


Value without Superbowl trip

See how it is now showing a negative? If I don’t take these offers, and no more come, I made an error in the investment, and shouldn’t have taken it.

I’m a bad candidate


I also mentioned in Vegas that I was a bad candidate because getting to Vegas is a PITA. I really can’t see me bringing all 3 of us from NY twice in a short period of time, but if I did the same gig and was single in LA, it makes a lot more sense, as the chance to cash in is that much higher. I knew this going in, but wanted to see how it played out regardless, so took one for the team.

Can you emulate this?


People ask me if they can do this, and I tend to say that it’s probably not for you. Simply put, it doesn’t sound so smart to try to lose $4,000 in order to get mysterious bennies. Hopefully, seeing what I’ve been offered in the 7 weeks or so since trying this will give some perspective. I was planning to show my coin in / tier credits earned also, but I upgraded to Platinum via the Hyatt status match today, and that screen has vanished. From memory, coin in for the trip was about $55,000, and I was about 33000 tier credits short of hitting Platinum legitimately from that trip.

Going forward, I’m certainly tempted by the offer to head back there and cash in the suite+$500 play+$400 resort credit. I’ve also got $158 in express comps and $162 in ‘Pointplay’, so it would be a good amount to cash in. I’m sure we could spend $558 in food with some aplomb, but it is still a bit of a trek.

If I was to go back I would have to make a decision – zero play (only if I’d already booked my other trips!) try it all over again to double down on the comps perhaps gaining Noir, or slow my horses, and just gain Platinum in a legitimate way. Fake platinum helps that by offering boosts to tier point levels.




The post mLife Math – the bet, the ROI, and the next step appeared first on Saverocity Travel.

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Dwater

Level 2 Member
Matt, with all due respect, having read your current article, I don't think you understand how casinos calculate theoretical loss.

If you want some basic info you can read the following
Code:
http://www.casinocenter.com/the-ratings-game/
If you want a detailed university paper on the subject...

Code:
http://gaming.unlv.edu/casinomath.html
What you are receiving is not based on your actual loss but your perceived average bet and the house edge
associated with the game you are playing.

Also its based on what the casino may win from you in future based on this.

If anyone is considering investing 4K, they would be far better off investing in comp books such as Comp City by Max Rubin and The Frugal Gambler by Jean Scott
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Matt, with all due respect, having read your current article, I don't think you understand how casinos calculate theoretical loss.

If you want some basic info you can read the following
Code:
http://www.casinocenter.com/the-ratings-game/
If you want a detailed university paper on the subject...

Code:
http://gaming.unlv.edu/casinomath.html
What you are receiving is not based on your actual loss but your perceived average bet and the house edge
associated with the game you are playing.

Also its based on what the casino may win from you in future based on this.

If anyone is considering investing 4K, they would be far better off investing in comp books such as Comp City by Max Rubin and The Frugal Gambler by Jean Scott
I'm pretty sure I get it. I'm just approaching it differently. Please question specific parts of it. I think it will be beneficial for you if you are interested in comps.

To expound on this, if you think it is because I brushed over Theo, it is only to keep the concepts simple in the post, and introduce the concept of ADT divisors without getting too in the weeds.

Here's a post from 2013 where I explain Theo calculations on a slot machine. Slots use Coin in as a metric vs 'value of bet, hours played' that tables use as it is all baked into the spin.

https://saverocity.com/travel/another-free-cruise-norwegian-cruise-lines-casinos-sea-much-cost/

What I don't truly know is the wholesale price of the comp value. For example, in the case of NCL they gave me a comp value of X, which then turned into a free Oceanview on some cruises or a free balcony on others. I believe that they weren't going from a rack rate, but more of an internal rate for this. It may or may not be the same as the 'casino rate' you can be offered for a slightly cheaper room.

However, as I talked about in Vegas, beyond actual comps is the 'list' level that you can acquire. For the Aria stay I earned enough (plus talked enough) to get the room, food, beverage, Spa taken care of - but then I get a new offer of 3 nights in a suite, $400 F/B and $500 slots based not purely on coin in, but rather a tier within that.

My hypothesis is that the tier in mlife (gold) is not correlated to that list offer, rather there is a hidden tier system. This is easily proven by asking genuine mlife Gold or even slow playing Platinums if they received this same offer.
 
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Matt

Administrator
Staff member
To help frame it better, based on everything you read about earning comps to earn status, I felt that people are reading the rules:

  • bet x hours x house edge = Theo
  • Comp is Theo / X
But I was trying to front like a player where my Theo was incredibly large, but for an incredibly short period of time, thus increasing my average play, and appearing like a player they wanted to put onto the lists where the good deals come from.

I suggested that a player who earned genuine Gold by playing $1 a spin over a billion hours would get published Gold benefits, but no more. Whereas what I would do is create new benefits a Gold level player as they looked at me as a Noir or above for the time I played.

If anyone is considering investing 4K, they would be far better off investing in comp books such as Comp City by Max Rubin and The Frugal Gambler by Jean Scott
You won't earn any comps by investing the $4K in a book :)
 

Dwater

Level 2 Member
To ask specifics, what machines/ table games were you playing?

The whole basis of the book Comp City is to look like a high roller while playing in such a way that your true theoretical loss is very small.
You can only do that if you understand exactly the math of what you are doing.

I played on a Blackjack team while in college so I have a pretty good grip on how casino comps work.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
To ask specifics, what machines/ table games were you playing?
I meant specifically what didn't you read that led you to believe I didn't understand it so we could explore it.

I played high limit slots. Fastest way to create CI and appear like a high roller.

your true theoretical loss is very small.
The reality is that you, as a player, never actually have a theo, you always have an actual. The only way to control your actual loss is to bet no more than the amount you would be OK to lose. You can talk about house hold percentage and theos all day long, but you cannot, as a player (especially as a player who is playing big and fast to game comps) ever say you can control theo when playing bigger.

Sure, you can say that a 95% machine is smarter than a 90% machine, and sure, I might play the 95% machine, but it really isn't meaningful to your actual play because the measured period is so small (a few hours of spinning a machine that has percentages calculated over millions of spins)

You could play a 100% payback machine and lose all your money. It's a fact of gambling that people who theorize don't understand.
 

BuddyFunJet

Level 2 Member
While a bit off topic, the podcast Gambling with an Edge with Bob Dancer has an interesting show on taxes for a professional gambler. Much of the info about taxes and cash management apply to MS.

On another front, their ad for Southpoint Casino in Vegas says that the casino has over a thousand machines with a 99% or better payback.

Back on topic, the math of gambling and slot club point payback can't be ignored but isn't the primary driver of this gig. The main payback is from host management to get a comp cruise.

While I understand the math side, the host management skill is outside my skill set.
 

ss8484

New Member
I had been under the impression that while CET properties were heavily ADT based, that mLife was more interested in the per trip numbers... not that it really matters at this level, I suppose. Also, I believe that these days, Noir has a pretty high minimum coin-in requirement - I would not double down on this one.

If you like gambling, though, you could use these trips as a 'free' opportunity to max out promotions at some other properties. There are still a few rebate offers to be had, plus a handful of fairly low level tiers that convey pretty good guaranteed benefits.

Anyway, I like reading about folks combining points/miles with casino programs - I think there's a lot of ways to make them work well together.
 
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