Keeping It Civil

[MickiSue]

I've been a member of Saverocity since its inception, and a reader of Matt's blog, since long before that.

I very much appreciate the resources and the style that he has worked so hard to create, here in this forum.

But the actions of a handful of posters, if silently approved by a sizable number of the rest, can make for a hostile atmosphere for part of the population. As a woman, I am used to the sometimes unconsciously demeaning comments that are made when guys get together. Heck, we women make them about guys, too.

But we are less likely to do so in a mixed group, and I, for one, would be very happy to see the misogynist comments stop, entirely. This is NOT a forum for men, only, and some of the comments that have been made are, frankly, shocking in their insensitivity.

No matter who you are, male, female, or whatever race, religion, ethnic background or political bent, please remember that there are others here who do not, necessarily, share your belief that a comment about a member or members of a different cohort is amusing.

Not because of a lack of a sense of humor. But because of a sense of appropriateness. We don't need formal manners, here. But we do need some manners.

 

[InstinctX]

Totally agree! (I am guilty of posting something that was in humor without MALICIOUS intent, without thinking through how it may be offensive or inappropriate). My friends and I joke amongst ourselves -- but that is done offline... "I'm so fat that when I step on a scale, it says "sorry no livestock" ... I'm so dumb that when I was driving to the airport and saw a sign that said "Airport Left" I turned around and went home."

When posting something, before you hit save changes: read through and ask yo self if that's something your momma would approve.

There is a reason why I enjoy this forum.

 

[Yeshu]

Micki, do you have a blog?

 

[MickiSue]

Micki, do you have a blog?

Nope.

 

[Haley]

Very well said, I whole heartedly agree.

This community needs trust more than anything else to function. We need to trust each other's discretion when we share information. We need to trust that advice is given in good faith. We need to trust that others will behave in a way that doesn't threaten a gig. Sexist comments in mixed company, racially insensitive jokes, and any other behavior that is antisocial damages the trust of this community.

If you post here without regard for how your words impact others my take away is that you would treat a gig the same way. Without regard for how your actions impact it for others.

(Edit to add: I never hold it against anyone if the offense was inadvertent and they respond to feedback that they may have offended someone appropriately)

This is an awesome community. Not just in the quality of information shared, but in the connections made between members. I find this hobby to be somewhat isolating. It is not something I discuss with friends or family. I find it very valuable to have a place where my triumphs and frustrations can be shared with people who actually understands.

 

[InstinctX]

This is an awesome community. Not just in the quality of information shared, but in the connections made between members. I find this hobby to be somewhat isolating. It is not something I discuss with friends or family. I find it very valuable to have a place where my triumphs and frustrations can be shared with people who actually understands.

Do you Staple? Stapling and MSing are quirky "hobbies" that friends and family don't get LOL

 

[Mountain Trader]

I'm in complete agreement with the OP.

 

[Madelyn]

WELL SAID!!

 

[ElainePDX]

One of the best things about this forum and the friends I have made travel hacking is that I interact with and learn from people who are not like me in age, sex, marital status, background, work experience, geographic location, etc., etc. But that means that we need to be especially aware that our words can be misinterpreted and that what is acceptable in one social setting may not be acceptable here.

More to the point, some words, attitudes and comments are (or should be!) unacceptable in any setting, and as Matt has made clear many times, they are not welcome here. So as InstinctX suggested, think, reread and revise as needed before you click that Post Reply button!

 

[Matt]

I concur. Civility here is the single most important thing that I hope to foster here, it ranks above any other goal of this forum. It is somewhat unfortunate combination that the internet in general, fora in particular and the MS crowd specifically skews towards being something of an arse.

I'd rather shut everything down than foster an environment where people thought it was fine to make others uncomfortable here.

Please be careful about what you write, and when it is called out, please be mindful of an alternative opinion. Sarcasm and a sense of humor are fine, but everyone should behave as they would as a guest in a room filled with men and women of all colors, political, and sexual orientations. If behaving in that environment doesn't work for you, you are free to leave.

Overall I think the environment here is good, but we should always be mindful of this and keep an eye on improving the little things that can slip through and add up.

 

[InstinctX]

Another way of thinking of what you post: Is this something I would send in an email at work to my coworkers?

 

[Yeshu]

Do you Staple? Stapling and MSing are quirky "hobbies" that friends and family don't get LOL

You made Staple a verb? Hahaha...Stapling - we need a definition for this please!

 

[Annie H.]

Totally agree! (I am guilty of posting something that was in humor without MALICIOUS intent, without thinking through how it may be offensive or inappropriate).

We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. It takes guts and grace to apologize and delete; I really appreciated it.

 

[f0xx]

Very well said, I whole heartedly agree.

This community needs trust more than anything else to function. We need to trust each other's discretion when we share information. We need to trust that advice is given in good faith. We need to trust that others will behave in a way that doesn't threaten a gig. Sexist comments in mixed company, racially insensitive jokes, and any other behavior that is antisocial damages the trust of this community.

If you post here without regard for how your words impact others my take away is that you would treat a gig the same way. Without regard for how your actions impact it for others.

(Edit to add: I never hold it against anyone if the offense was inadvertent and they respond to feedback that they may have offended someone appropriately)

This is an awesome community. Not just in the quality of information shared, but in the connections made between members. I find this hobby to be somewhat isolating. It is not something I discuss with friends or family. I find it very valuable to have a place where my triumphs and frustrations can be shared with people who actually understands.

lol.................

Something you won't find here when people are greedy when it comes to their cash cow. But one likes to dream.

 

[TheBOSman]

lol.................

Something you won't find here when people are greedy when it comes to their cash cow. But one likes to dream.

At the absolute least, I would hope people can trust to not be participating in an actively negative environment. Nobody is obligated to share anything they might know, whether here or FT or on their front porch or private group or wherever. If someone has a cash cow, it is that person who decides if they want to share with the group or if they want to keep it to themselves. Participation amounts, with the only caveat of access to Level 2 or subscriber groups, is fully and totally up to each individual user. But antagonistic content as mentioned above simply has no place here.

 

[InstinctX]

Does PetSmart carry cash cows? What permits do I need to have a cash cow at my house? At Starbucks, they allow service animals. Can I bring one inside with me?

 

[MickiSue]

We don't, of course, trust every person in this forum to be a good steward of a method that we worked hard to implement. How could we? We don't know each other, with the exception of a handful, well enough to have even the slightest amount of certainty that things won't get ruined by hogs.

But BosMan nailed it: the trust is that we will each be treated with respect. That's all.

 

[Hanaleiradio]

Thanks much to the OP for starting this thread. The frequency of gender and race-based comments ebbs and flows, and over the last few weeks it seemed to me that the flow was up! But because woman participants consistently call out the gender-based remarks, I think there is less of it now than when I first entered here. It also seems to me that race-based remarks are more often met with silence from other participants. But I agree with others who've noted that there is far less tolerance of that stuff here than elsewhere, from both participants and moderators.

 

[MickiSue]

It also seems to me that race-based remarks are more often met with silence from other participants. But I agree with others who've noted that there is far less tolerance of that stuff here than elsewhere, from both participants and moderators.

Sadly, I agree. I need to be more willing to wade into that fray, as well.

 

[pointsaholic]

It also seems to me that race-based remarks are more often met with silence from other participants.

I cringed when I read race-based remarks, but I did not speak up. Need to step up next time.

 

[SherryFD]

When posting something, before you hit save changes: read through and ask yo self if that's something your momma would approve.

Yes!

Another good question to ask is ...
Would you be okay seeing your name attached to your comment on the front page of the NY Times, LA Times, Wall Street Journal, etc.?

If the answer is no, then it's also not appropriate in this setting, whether or not you're anonymous.

 

[Matt]

I cringed when I read race-based remarks, but I did not speak up. Need to step up next time.

Just FYI you can step up if you want, but you don't 'need' to. Stepping up can be intimidating for some. You can also just open a dialogue with me about the post and I will do that for you.

 

[pointsaholic]

Just FYI you can step up if you want, but you don't 'need' to. Stepping up can be intimidating for some. You can also just open a dialogue with me about the post and I will do that for you.

Thank you

 

[TheBOSman]

Just FYI you can step up if you want, but you don't 'need' to. Stepping up can be intimidating for some. You can also just open a dialogue with me about the post and I will do that for you.

Likewise, report the post or start a conversation with a moderator and let us look at it and fix it. I've got a thick skin when it comes to this, I've been called far, far worse things than anything anyone here could possibly come up with . Tough for us to look at every thread though, I've been traveling a lot lately (currently typing this from Adelaide, Australia) so we rely on the reports from members to help us stay on top of most things .