It's OK to call in folks.

[Matt]

I saw a thread over on FT (I don't have it to hand) that had an example of calling in gone wrong, I thought it would be a good time to talk about when to call in.

First things first - I do not subscribe to NEVER CALL IN. I don't like to see it in comments, and I don't think it makes any sense to say this. In fact, it creates more problems than not. You see, if you are in an environment like FlyerTalk where people jump on you for suggesting things like calling the result is:

They will still call in, but they won't tell you, because you are confrontational. What's worse, you can now be viewed as the representative of 'the community' and they don't care for either of you.

When a persons money/tickets/whatnot are locked up for whatever reason, it is very much the case that they want to sort that out quickly and effectively, and that waiting around twiddling your thumbs and not calling in is daft. The people who scream DON"T CALL IN! (DCI) aren't going to reimburse you. As experienced members of the community I expect you to not cry DCI at every turn. I expect you to help resolve the issue. Unfortunately, (and I think quite likely because of toxicity) people often don't say they are going to call until you hear 'I called and...pooped the bed'.

This is the core concept behind The Forum. It is not about super duper secrets (though they emerge without doubt) it is about building a community that can navigate the problems, and also find new solutions. For that reason I get annoyed by comments asking for a Level 3, and suggesting that there are newbies here. It is supposed to have new people here, there are new people who will bring really great ideas to the table. Slamming them for trying is not cool. Though I am not adverse to a bit of snark, as I don't want this to be the boy scouts club.

When I'm not OK with calling in

In the FT thread, I wouldn't have been cool with that guy calling in. Actually, I'd kick them out of here for that. I hope it doesn't sound contradictory, but there are times to call in and times to not call in. It really comes down to the nuance of intent. In this case, the guy in question booked 5 tickets from himself, that were error fares (variation on trick fares) and called in to make sure that everything he had was ticketed, drawing attention to FlyerTalk and trying his best to get himself ticketed, regardless of the attention it drew to the ticket prices.

Without getting into the ethics of booking fares that perhaps aren't priced as intended, if you come to a place like the Mileage Run area of FlyerTalk to take a deal from them, you need to respect them and their rules, and it is common knowledge that speaking with an agent to get them to force a very low priced ticket will cause it to shut down.

It's all about when, and how.

If you call in when a deal like that is live, you are willing to kill it to ticket yourself. That's something I'd ban someone for. If you wait, and the ticket hasn't loaded into your profile and the fare has gone, perhaps you can find a way to call in and chase up the ticketing. Want the best practice on that -ask in the forum! Say "hey guys, I booked X tickets, nothing showing, thoughts?"

I'm not sure if this seems confusing, but it is congruent with my overall approach to the Forum. I don't mind if you talk about something here in confidence with a trusted friend, but if you repackage information for your own selfish needs, such as to convert credit cards on a blog, or buy your way into a forum or clique then I think that is unacceptable.

So you can call in, and you can talk about the Forum outside of here, but if you do so with blatant self centered goals, i'll have to boot you back to FlyerTalk and the big blue meanies. We are looking for people who can call in with skill, and with care. At the right time, and without ruining things for everyone. And I expect the 'old hands' to help cultivate that.

 

[smittytabb]

I saw a thread over on FT (I don't have it to hand) that had an example of calling in gone wrong, I thought it would be a good time to talk about when to call in.

First things first - I do not subscribe to NEVER CALL IN. I don't like to see it in comments, and I don't think it makes any sense to say this. In fact, it creates more problems than not. You see, if you are in an environment like FlyerTalk where people jump on you for suggesting things like calling the result is:

They will still call in, but they won't tell you, because you are confrontational. What's worse, you can now be viewed as the representative of 'the community' and they don't care for either of you.

When a persons money/tickets/whatnot are locked up for whatever reason, it is very much the case that they want to sort that out quickly and effectively, and that waiting around twiddling your thumbs and not calling in is daft. The people who scream DON"T CALL IN! (DCI) aren't going to reimburse you. As experienced members of the community I expect you to not cry DCI at every turn. I expect you to help resolve the issue. Unfortunately, (and I think quite likely because of toxicity) people often don't say they are going to call until you hear 'I called and...pooped the bed'.

This is the core concept behind The Forum. It is not about super duper secrets (though they emerge without doubt) it is about building a community that can navigate the problems, and also find new solutions. For that reason I get annoyed by comments asking for a Level 3, and suggesting that there are newbies here. It is supposed to have new people here, there are new people who will bring really great ideas to the table. Slamming them for trying is not cool. Though I am not adverse to a bit of snark, as I don't want this to be the boy scouts club.

When I'm not OK with calling in

In the FT thread, I wouldn't have been cool with that guy calling in. Actually, I'd kick them out of here for that. I hope it doesn't sound contradictory, but there are times to call in and times to not call in. It really comes down to the nuance of intent. In this case, the guy in question booked 5 tickets from himself, that were error fares (variation on trick fares) and called in to make sure that everything he had was ticketed, drawing attention to FlyerTalk and trying his best to get himself ticketed, regardless of the attention it drew to the ticket prices.

Without getting into the ethics of booking fares that perhaps aren't priced as intended, if you come to a place like the Mileage Run area of FlyerTalk to take a deal from them, you need to respect them and their rules, and it is common knowledge that speaking with an agent to get them to force a very low priced ticket will cause it to shut down.

It's all about when, and how.

If you call in when a deal like that is live, you are willing to kill it to ticket yourself. That's something I'd ban someone for. If you wait, and the ticket hasn't loaded into your profile and the fare has gone, perhaps you can find a way to call in and chase up the ticketing. Want the best practice on that -ask in the forum! Say "hey guys, I booked X tickets, nothing showing, thoughts?"

I'm not sure if this seems confusing, but it is congruent with my overall approach to the Forum. I don't mind if you talk about something here in confidence with a trusted friend, but if you repackage information for your own selfish needs, such as to convert credit cards on a blog, or buy your way into a forum or clique then I think that is unacceptable.

So you can call in, and you can talk about the Forum outside of here, but if you do so with blatant self centered goals, i'll have to boot you back to FlyerTalk and the big blue meanies. We are looking for people who can call in with skill, and with care. At the right time, and without ruining things for everyone. And I expect the 'old hands' to help cultivate that.

"nuance of intent"...such an excellent turn of phrase and why I am here and not on Milepoint, FT or TC. This is a place where the complexities of this game we love can be sorted out without fear and trepidation. Thanks for providing a place for that, @Matt

 

[thepaul500]

I think the better question is why someone would risk buying tickets for a family vacation on a trick it fare....airlines have been known to demand payment at check-in/the gate before. Friends don't buy friends tricked fares!

Its always a safe assumption that someone, somewhere, is calling in about any mistakes fares, rates, deals, etc. I don't think I'm off base if I say that even the most experienced players at this game, if driven far enough into the corner or deep enough into a hole, would do whatever they could to get themselves out, even if that meant calling in and burning a deal.

 

[smittytabb]

I think the better question is why someone would risk buying tickets for a family vacation on a trick it fare....airlines have been known to demand payment at check-in/the gate before. Friends don't buy friends tricked fares!

Its always a safe assumption that someone, somewhere, is calling in about any mistakes fares, rates, deals, etc. I don't think I'm off base if I say that even the most experienced players at this game, if driven far enough into the corner or deep enough into a hole, would do whatever they could to get themselves out, even if that meant calling in and burning a deal.

Right and why you have to think. I know my SO would hate the inconveniences of a trick fare going wrong. I would never do it with him. I travel solo a lot and that is the only time I would attempt it and I am strategic, creative and resourceful enough not to mess up the game for anyone else if it goes south.

 

[inflightmeal]

A trick fare going wrong and being asked to pony up at the gate... Sounds beyond terrible. And sounds like my SO would probably hop on a flight with a guy in a "DCI" shirt.

 

[ElainePDX]

What we are trying to do here, I think, is mentor others, and be mentored ourselves, in exercising and using good judgement. Any of you who are parents or who have helped raise a child know that that is not an easy thing to teach. It is the advice I often offer my adult kids when they set off on a new adventure....

Hopefully as we share experiences and ideas here, we will collectively learn and model good judgement, so that it can blossom in others and continue to be honed for our own exercise of this "craft."

 

[mrsjon01]

So I might be one of the only ones, but I often travel on tricked fares with the family. We've done error fares and FD fares, and have not had a single problem...but we use OLCI and keep a low profile.

I actually have a tricked ticket booked that doesn't show up anywhere. It's on AZ, booked thru PL (yeah, THAT one...mxp-jfk//pvg-nrt) and I can't get the AZ leg to show up anywhere. It's killing me because I really do want to call, but haven't dared. An FD expert has assured me that it will be fine, but not being able to see it on AZ, CMT, Saudia, etc really makes me nervous, especially when I can see the second leg fine on KL.

Thoughts?

 

[PWMTrav]

As Matt alluded to, it's a two way street. If you're a noob, feel free to ask before being impulsive. If you're experienced, don't be an asshole - try to help the person. Sometimes the best advice will be to call in, but if it's not you want people to feel ok about asking first. Stewardship is more than careful disclosure, it's about helping people along so that they can really understand the concepts. And you don't have a choice in the matter, either, because if you choose to shut up and shout DCI or whatever else, rest assured that someone, somewhere has circled and arrowed the same deal you're trying not to kill. So you can either help people become like you, or bitch and complain when the bad habits prevail - but you can't stop the latter without doing the former.

 

[Matt]

So I might be one of the only ones, but I often travel on tricked fares with the family. We've done error fares and FD fares, and have not had a single problem...but we use OLCI and keep a low profile.

I actually have a tricked ticket booked that doesn't show up anywhere. It's on AZ, booked thru PL (yeah, THAT one...mxp-jfk//pvg-nrt) and I can't get the AZ leg to show up anywhere. It's killing me because I really do want to call, but haven't dared. An FD expert has assured me that it will be fine, but not being able to see it on AZ, CMT, Saudia, etc really makes me nervous, especially when I can see the second leg fine on KL.

Thoughts?

Sounds like a difficult situation, and highlights why I wouldn't bring family on a tricked fare- can you handle being at the airport not knowing if you are ticketed? If not, perhaps you shouldn't be booking these fares. That's based on what you say about the experienced FDer saying it's OK.

Hope it works out for you!

If you do need to call, of course there are ways to call in, and ways to not call in. Referring to the FT thread where you saw the error is probably not the best approach, I add that for others, as I am sure you wouldn't.

 

[mrsjon01]

Sounds like a difficult situation, and highlights why I wouldn't bring family on a tricked fare- can you handle being at the airport not knowing if you are ticketed? If not, perhaps you shouldn't be booking these fares. That's based on what you say about the experienced FDer saying it's OK.

Hope it works out for you!

If you do need to call, of course there are ways to call in, and ways to not call in. Referring to the FT thread where you saw the error is probably not the best approach, I add that for others, as I am sure you wouldn't.

Haha, right. For me this is manageable because we travel in a roll-with-it kind of way, but I definitely don't recommend it for people who don't have a Plan B.

 

[ElainePDX]

Haha, right. For me this is manageable because we travel in a roll-with-it kind of way, but I definitely don't recommend it for people who don't have a Plan B.

I think I need some lessons in "roll-with-it" travel. The only thing I manage to roll with is my carry-on. But maybe when we retire....

 

[mrsjon01]

I think I need some lessons in "roll-with-it" travel. The only thing I manage to roll with is my carry-on. But maybe when we retire....

It helps that we limit ourselves to just a backpack. It's a physical reminder to keep it simple.