Hilton Point Value at US Properties

cz606

Level 2 Member
Hello,

I have accrued quite a few Hilton points over the past year or so and recently looked to redeem some points for a night in a hotel in northwest CA (category 5 property). To my surprise, the value per point at the redemption rate was ~ .4 cents.

I know some people say it is possible to consistently get .$.01 or more per Hilton per point, but those redemptions seem to be at international properties and in areas hurting for visitors. With that, I was wondering if < .5 cents per point is typical for Hilton redemptions domestically or if I may have just ran into a property with a particularly low valuation.
 

Josh F

Level 2 Member
Charity Forum Mod
I think that was pre-devaluation. It's very difficult to get 1 cent anymore anywhere. Most people seem to value them in the .4-.6 cents now. I can usually get out .7 by either only booking low-end properties or mid-end properties using AXON Rewards (discounted 4 night stay with AmEx Card) or GLON Rewards (5th night free with status). You do have to be careful with AXON now, as it isn't always cheaper than GLON due to the seasonal rates. Typically, redeeming for a single night in a mid-tier without leveraging AXON/GLON will get you around the .4 cents. You're probably even doing slightly worse as you're probably not including the points you won't accrue!

My typical plan is to accrue enough points for an AXON/GLON, burn em, and cycle again, so my balance doesn't ever get too high.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
I stopped collecting Hilton points after the Axon7 145K devaluation, where I booked 4 nights in Conrad Tokyo, Conrad Maldives and later in Rome Cavalieri - amazing for 145K. Nowadays... not so much. But the earn and burn rule continues, so if you haven't got a big international trip planned, you might as well burn them at 0.4cents because it gets them out of your account.
 

cz606

Level 2 Member
Thank you both for the advice. Will probably end up burning with an AXON reward at some point this year. 6 points/dollar at the grocery store suddenly doesn't look so appealing.
 

BoonDR

Level 2 Member
I stopped using the AMEX HH card after the devaluation.

To think I once had the dilemma of deciding between 6x HH or 2x UR for purchasing VR's.
 

Josh F

Level 2 Member
Charity Forum Mod
I stopped using the AMEX HH card after the devaluation.

To think I once had the dilemma of deciding between 6x HH or 2x UR for purchasing VR's.
I used to have the same dilemma, it's a moot point now...
 

konorth

Level 2 Member
I'm locked into Hilton due to biz obligations. I need to acquire a few nights on my own to obtain and keep diamond, but I find using various codes makes staying at quite a few properties worthwhile.
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
Those who pan Hilton simply haven't done the math. Other than Carlson with their second night free promo, HH is either best value or very close to it thru all tier levels if you are a MSer. Can get HH at 0.2cpp with Surpass at grocery. Or even cheaper via 3x using other cash equivalents (~0.13cpp).

What I suggest people do is determine their cost to acquire points and then convert award point totals into cash to determine what is the best hotel program for them.

Since I can manufacture HH at 0.2c (or less), a 40K HH redemption is $52-$80, I then compare alternative hotel choices like Hyatt and SPG using same method. Right now, comparing Hilton Resort in PHX vs SPG Phoenician for the PHX DO. 40K HH vs 12K SPG. I get SPG at blended cost of around 0.8c, so 12K = $96. Then I look at intangibles (status/location). Since I'm HH Diamond thru $40K spend on the Amex Surpass, and only Gold with SPG, HH offers me better perks. In this case, Phoenician is slightly nicer property, but is more expensive and am unlikely to get upgraded. So it's an easy choice to stay at the Hilton.

I do similar comparison at all places I stay. Because of status and competitive cost, HH gets a lot of my business.
 

rameninabowl

New Member
Those who pan Hilton simply haven't done the math. Other than Carlson with their second night free promo, HH is either best value or very close to it thru all tier levels if you are a MSer. Can get HH at 0.2cpp with Surpass at grocery. Or even cheaper via 3x using other cash equivalents (~0.13cpp).

What I suggest people do is determine their cost to acquire points and then convert award point totals into cash to determine what is the best hotel program for them.

Since I can manufacture HH at 0.2c (or less), a 40K HH redemption is $52-$80, I then compare alternative hotel choices like Hyatt and SPG using same method. Right now, comparing Hilton Resort in PHX vs SPG Phoenician for the PHX DO. 40K HH vs 12K SPG. I get SPG at blended cost of around 0.8c, so 12K = $96. Then I look at intangibles (status/location). Since I'm HH Diamond thru $40K spend on the Amex Surpass, and only Gold with SPG, HH offers me better perks. In this case, Phoenician is slightly nicer property, but is more expensive and am unlikely to get upgraded. So it's an easy choice to stay at the Hilton.

I do similar comparison at all places I stay. Because of status and competitive cost, HH gets a lot of my business.
The problem with running numbers like this is that it ignores opportunity cost. Let's say you're basing this on a $5.95 cost per $500 gc, earning 3000 HH for a cost of just under .2c per point. At this cost, a 40k redemption is about $80 in real cost (~14 gcs). Alternatively, you could have earned 5% back on a different card and earned $350. So for the same cost, though you can manufacture those 40K HH points at .02c per point, you could have had $350. For those HH points to not be a losing proposition when compared against that, you'd need to be earning .8-.9 cents per HH point, which is difficult to achieve.

The SPG card makes even less sense in this scenario to use at grocery stores, but you wouldn't use it there. You'd likely try to MS with SPG at a non-bonused cost of $2.95 per $500, at where you could net, say, 12k at a cost of $70 (cheaper than your grocery scenario). Even funnier, you could MS with HH at this same non-bonused cost of $2.95 per $500, only earning 3 points per dollar, but actually costing less than the grocery store setup (but more time/effort) to earn those 40kHH (at just under $80).
 
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Paul

Level 2 Member
The problem with running numbers like this is that it ignores opportunity cost. Let's say you're basing this on a $5.95 cost per $500 gc, earning 3000 HH for a cost of just under .2c per point. At this cost, a 40k redemption is about $80 in real cost (~14 gcs). Alternatively, you could have earned 5% back on a different card and earned $350. So for the same cost, though you can manufacture those 40K HH points at .02c per point, you could have had $350. For those HH points to not be a losing proposition when compared against that, you'd need to be earning .8-.9 cents per HH point, which is difficult to achieve.

The SPG card makes even less sense in this scenario to use at grocery stores, but you wouldn't use it there. You'd likely try to MS with SPG at a non-bonused cost of $2.95 per $500, at where you could net, say, 12k at a cost of $70 (cheaper than your grocery scenario). Even funnier, you could MS with HH at this same non-bonused cost of $2.95 per $500, only earning 3 points per dollar, but actually costing less to earn those 40kHH (at just under $80).
What your argument presumes is that there is lost opportunity cost. I max out my 5% opportunities first, then my mall spend, then do my other MS. I'd never forgo 5% cb for any other MS (I hit 5% as hard as I dare).

HH at 6x grocery is indeed higher cost than at mall (as I indicated), but there's the issue of volume. My grocery volume is effectively unlimited and I get 6x HH, while mall @ 3x HH is limited. If I did HH at mall, I'd need to do 2x the volume and, even worse, I'd crowd out my ability to earn low cost SPG. I accept modestly higher cost HH at grocery in exchange for otherwise-limited ability to earn low cost SPG elsewhere. And since I value SPG for it's optionality, I consider it the best solution and a net gain.

As such, I don't run my cost analysis based on artificially low cpp for SPG, and instead use a blended cost so as to not skew the results (and I assume higher cost cpp for HH). The upside is I have access to meaningful number of SPG, allowing for stays at properties where HH isn't present, or aren't as desirable. How do you place value on that?

Finally, there's the ability to earn status. I don't spend a lot of nights in chain hotels (~20 nights a year). Not enough to get top status via stays. Yet HH offers Diamond for $40K spend on Surpass (and Reserve). No other hotel program does that. I've had excellent upgrades as HH Diamond (better than my experience as Hyatt Diamond). With low cost MS and ability to get top status, coupled with large property list, HH is almost always in contention for my business. But if I find better properties/preferred locations (even when at higher cost), I will stay elsewhere.

But my point wasn't to get in a debate whether SPG or HH was lower cost. It was that everyone needs to run their own numbers to see what is best value for them based on their own spend patterns, and not listen to emotional comments that infest this hobby every time there's a devaluation. Reality was HH was so obscenely generous prior to the devaluation that it wasn't that there was such a large devaluation, but rather it took so long for the inevitable to happen. Pre-deval, you could get top tier rooms for $50/night - rooms with rack rates btw $600-$1K/night. Now, it's closer to $150-180/night (via 6x grocery and 5th night free) - a "horrible" percentage difference in the abstract, but compared to the competition (Hyatt, SPG/IH etc), remains very competitive value.
 

Mountain Trader

Level 2 Member
I agree one needs to run the math but my math comes much closer to rameninabowl's. With that much spend at grocery stores, I would focus on more sustainable cash back options and use the cash to shop for best hotel deals. To each their own, and Paul's travel pattern likely works for his clearly well-considered plan.

Also, Diamond is an worthwhile intangible, with lower levels seeming to be worth less as time goes on.
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
I agree one needs to run the math but my math comes much closer to rameninabowl's. With that much spend at grocery stores, I would focus on more sustainable cash back options and use the cash to shop for best hotel deals. To each their own, and Paul's travel pattern likely works for his clearly well-considered plan.

Also, Diamond is an worthwhile intangible, with lower levels seeming to be worth less as time goes on.


$40K is only a bit over 1% of my MS, so isn't crowding out any 5%. And using 5% cash back to pay for rooms that I can get at significantly less cost using points doesn't make any sense (typically get rooms at 50% or less than lowest daily rate using points, not counting what upgraded rooms due to status would cost).
 

PedroNY

Level 2 Member
$40K is only a bit over 1% of my MS, so isn't crowding out any 5%. And using 5% cash back to pay for rooms that I can get at significantly less cost using points doesn't make any sense (typically get rooms at 50% or less than lowest daily rate using points, not counting what upgraded rooms due to status would cost).
Your MS is $4 million per year? Impressive.

Cheers,

PedroNY
 

NickPFD

Mmmm.... yeah....
Staff member
How about the Hampton Inn off I-95 in Jacksonville, FL for 5K points / night? I'd rate that as the most appealing of Hilton's 5 category 1 properties.
 

rameninabowl

New Member
Btw 3-4MM
Now I see where you're coming from. For what I assume is a typical MS'er, I imagine the bottleneck is by card issuer, annual income and the looming possibility of an FR. In this case, with the 5% and 6x HH coming from the same issuer, my thought is that assuming you max out the 5% up to your annual income, any use of the 6x HH is to the detriment of the 5%. But at your level of MS, it sounds like this general rule of thumb does not apply and I can see the allure of MS'ing HH points!

I actually am a big fan of the HH program but, for my situation, can not justify putting grocery spend on it over a 5% cashback card. Were that not the case, MS'ing HH points would hold much higher appeal for many of the reasons you outlined (and, regardless of whether Diamond over Gold is worth it, it's nice to have that within reach based on spend).
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
Now I see where you're coming from. For what I assume is a typical MS'er, I imagine the bottleneck is by card issuer, annual income and the looming possibility of an FR. In this case, with the 5% and 6x HH coming from the same issuer, my thought is that assuming you max out the 5% up to your annual income, any use of the 6x HH is to the detriment of the 5%. But at your level of MS, it sounds like this general rule of thumb does not apply and I can see the allure of MS'ing HH points!

I actually am a big fan of the HH program but, for my situation, can not justify putting grocery spend on it over a 5% cashback card. Were that not the case, MS'ing HH points would hold much higher appeal for many of the reasons you outlined (and, regardless of whether Diamond over Gold is worth it, it's nice to have that within reach based on spend).
Agreed. I'd always max out 5% before all else. That said, not so difficult to work in $3.3K/mo average to get $40K for Diamond. HH are worth 0.4c, so 6x = 2.4c, better than Arrival (but only half of 5%).

Nevertheless, I don't think anyone would be hard pressed to add another $3.3K a month to their MS, over and above what they'd do anyway (so no lost opportunity costs to consider). And that way they'd get the bennies from Diamond (which could be worth significantly more than any potential lost opportunity costs), plus would save about 50% over what it would take to pay cash rates. So the smart thing to do is add that extra bit of volume, get Diamond and save significant $ than using your 5% cashback profits to pay for rooms.
 

Makido

Level 2 Member
I recently stayed at the Hilton in downtown Chicago (easy upgrade to executive floor as they have multiple executive floors w/diamond). Even though it was 50k/night, my point value was around .62 (my minimum is .5). Even after the devaluation, I believe it's one of the better values out there outside of Club Carlson. I routinely get in the 0.75-0.85 value range, but it's very hard to get 1c value now.
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
I recently stayed at the Hilton in downtown Chicago (easy upgrade to executive floor as they have multiple executive floors w/diamond). Even though it was 50k/night, my point value was around .62 (my minimum is .5). Even after the devaluation, I believe it's one of the better values out there outside of Club Carlson. I routinely get in the 0.75-0.85 value range, but it's very hard to get 1c value now.
That's pretty decent redemption. I don't look at upgrades as part of my redemption value as they are hit and miss (thankfully, mostly hit - been upgraded to suites most of the time). I like HH Diamond for the lounge access - that's worth $50/day for 2 people if you can skip a couple of meals and drinks, and speed things along without wasting time.
 

StephenW

New Member
Continuing the off-topic bit of conversation going on here...

I approach things a little differenly and manufacture spend according to my planned redemptions. No sense in accumulating a massive amount of points and let them sit there to be devalued. Currently, I'm looking at aspirational properties and Hilton has many of them at decent redemption rates (compared to some of the other chains, aside from Hyatt). Conrad Tokyo for over a week in 2012, Conrad Koh Samui and Hong Kong in 2013, and Conrad Maldives in 2014.

I maximize my point value by staying in 5-night redemption increments, combining that stay with my Citi Reserve free weekend night, and take advantage of P&C when possible.

And back on topic...

Within the US, I've been able to get good value out of my points when cash rates have skyrocketed due to demand or seasonality. This is particularly true in NYC during the Summer/Fall and in Miami during Art Basel. Otherwise I'm usually paying cash out of pocket.
 

andysiz

Level 2 Member
Broadening @Paul's point, Hilton points in general are among the easiest to accumulate from a multitude of sources. You earn a LOT on paid stays, especially if you're elite and there's a generous bonus stacked on top. Of course, you can churn the Citi basic Hilton Visa forever, popping 40-50k per card (I have not done this but apparently people continue to churn this card successfully).

I agree with @Paul -- you've got to do the math. Both on the earn as well as redemption side. For example, I don't like to accumulate Starpoints on hotel stays because the math does not work for me. Personally, I like to redeem hotel points for aspirational properties once/twice a year. The high-end Starwood properties are prohibitively expensive, requiring 30k+ Starpoints per night. Hilton shines in their (limited) high-end properties' award redemptions. Conrad Maldives and Koh Samui are great examples. Even post-devaluation, you're getting a great deal.

If you're someone who does not have a huge bank of points across loyalties, then Hilton also has added value because it's easier to avoid orphaned points. You can transfer points into Hilton so many ways (Virgin Atlantic --> Hilton, Amex MR --> Hilton, etc.). You can also add 2 nights for each Reserve card you get.
 

Mingy

Level 2 Member
Broadening @Paul's point, Hilton points in general are among the easiest to accumulate from a multitude of sources. You earn a LOT on paid stays, especially if you're elite and there's a generous bonus stacked on top. Of course, you can churn the Citi basic Hilton Visa forever, popping 40-50k per card (I have not done this but apparently people continue to churn this card successfully).
Was able to churn it last month. Also the BOA Virgin cards were very churnable, and transfer to Hilton (though at a lesser rate now)
 

carlos

Level 2 Member
Those who pan Hilton simply haven't done the math. Other than Carlson with their second night free promo, HH is either best value or very close to it thru all tier levels if you are a MSer. Can get HH at 0.2cpp with Surpass at grocery. Or even cheaper via 3x using other cash equivalents (~0.13cpp).

What I suggest people do is determine their cost to acquire points and then convert award point totals into cash to determine what is the best hotel program for them.

Since I can manufacture HH at 0.2c (or less), a 40K HH redemption is $52-$80, I then compare alternative hotel choices like Hyatt and SPG using same method. Right now, comparing Hilton Resort in PHX vs SPG Phoenician for the PHX DO. 40K HH vs 12K SPG. I get SPG at blended cost of around 0.8c, so 12K = $96. Then I look at intangibles (status/location). Since I'm HH Diamond thru $40K spend on the Amex Surpass, and only Gold with SPG, HH offers me better perks. In this case, Phoenician is slightly nicer property, but is more expensive and am unlikely to get upgraded. So it's an easy choice to stay at the Hilton.

I do similar comparison at all places I stay. Because of status and competitive cost, HH gets a lot of my business.
I agree with you, I have a vacation in April at hotel in Barcelona, rates during that week are not to expensive but for 4 nights cost is $835.00 or 120,000 points, to get 120,000 points I can use my Citi Hilton card and spend $40,000 at the grocery at a cost of $476.00 plus at same time I get Diamond at Hilton. With my case I get 50% discount on the hotel cost, , in reality I don't need to do so much MS since I do stay at Hilton for work (no choice) so I only had to MS about $10,000 to stay for free
 

Haley

I am not a robot
Thought I'd just add a data point.

Recent stay in CA.
30k points
12k points and $50
MVP rate $79-99 depending on the night
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
I agree with you, I have a vacation in April at hotel in Barcelona, rates during that week are not to expensive but for 4 nights cost is $835.00 or 120,000 points, to get 120,000 points I can use my Citi Hilton card and spend $40,000 at the grocery at a cost of $476.00 plus at same time I get Diamond at Hilton. With my case I get 50% discount on the hotel cost, , in reality I don't need to do so much MS since I do stay at Hilton for work (no choice) so I only had to MS about $10,000 to stay for free
Hmm. $476 for 120K HH is expensive (0.4cpp - not something I'd be interested in). If you have the Surpass, you can get 6x @ grocery and cpp should be around 0.2. So 120K HH should cost around $240 plus whatever your cashout costs are. Since HH offers 5th night free, adding another night won't cost you anything...
 

Josh F

Level 2 Member
Charity Forum Mod
I agree with you, I have a vacation in April at hotel in Barcelona, rates during that week are not to expensive but for 4 nights cost is $835.00 or 120,000 points, to get 120,000 points I can use my Citi Hilton card and spend $40,000 at the grocery at a cost of $476.00 plus at same time I get Diamond at Hilton. With my case I get 50% discount on the hotel cost, , in reality I don't need to do so much MS since I do stay at Hilton for work (no choice) so I only had to MS about $10,000 to stay for free
Switch to the Surpass, you'll earn 6X instead of 3X. Even factoring in the annual fee of $75 you'll make out much better... With Amex Sync offers, you can usually negate most of the annual fee anyhow (or come out ahead). I agree it's not bad to MS Hilton if you can leverage either the AXON or GLON rewards and avoid the top category hotels...
 

John B

New Member
One thought on the math of it all... you all might actually be undervaluing your calculations of points, if you care about the level of room you get. If you just look at a hotel room as a hotel room, disregard.

For instance, you can look back at your past activity and see that x% of the time when using points at a Hilton property you get upgraded, you could average out the value of the upgraded rooms to increase your point valuation. You would do the same for all hotel chains you use with rewards points. Some mid-level statistical analysis like decision trees combined with probabilities might provide a more clear picture of where the most value is per dollar spent. However, if you don't care about the room more than it provides you a bed and bathroom disregard as upgrades are meaningless as is the value that comes with them.
 

Josh F

Level 2 Member
Charity Forum Mod
One thought on the math of it all... you all might actually be undervaluing your calculations of points, if you care about the level of room you get. If you just look at a hotel room as a hotel room, disregard.

For instance, you can look back at your past activity and see that x% of the time when using points at a Hilton property you get upgraded, you could average out the value of the upgraded rooms to increase your point valuation. You would do the same for all hotel chains you use with rewards points. Some mid-level statistical analysis like decision trees combined with probabilities might provide a more clear picture of where the most value is per dollar spent. However, if you don't care about the room more than it provides you a bed and bathroom disregard as upgrades are meaningless as is the value that comes with them.
I think the debate is more about whether you would pay more for the upgrade rather than if you care about it. I do prefer an upgraded room but I wouldn't pay more for it... so even if I'm upgraded I don't recalculate my point/value ratio since I wouldn't have paid for it anyhow. I view it as just a nice perk. I'd put some value into free breakfast since we're a family of 4, but I could also stay stay at a hyatt place, hix, etc and get that benefit too...
 

John B

New Member
I think the debate is more about whether you would pay more for the upgrade rather than if you care about it. I do prefer an upgraded room but I wouldn't pay more for it... so even if I'm upgraded I don't recalculate my point/value ratio since I wouldn't have paid for it anyhow. I view it as just a nice perk. I'd put some value into free breakfast since we're a family of 4, but I could also stay stay at a hyatt place, hix, etc and get that benefit too...
Yeah, it really depends on how you value things and what you would or would not pay for. You could just as easily put in other perks like WiFi or Breakfast and add that to the analysis to come up with a more precise valuation.
 

redbirdsj

Level 2 Member
I agree that Hilton often gets slammed because people simply look at the absolute number of points required and not relative values or the cost of acquisition. I just redeemed two consecutive 5th night free stays in Europe (Vienna and Prague) which I found to be excellent values. I just have gold status from the Surpass but received an upgrade, lounge access and a large breakfast spread at each hotel, all of which I easily valued at $40-50/night for two people (yes, it would have cost me something similar to this for two people if I didn't have the benefits).
 

Josh F

Level 2 Member
Charity Forum Mod
I agree that Hilton often gets slammed because people simply look at the absolute number of points required and not relative values or the cost of acquisition. I just redeemed two consecutive 5th night free stays in Europe (Vienna and Prague) which I found to be excellent values. I just have gold status from the Surpass but received an upgrade, lounge access and a large breakfast spread at each hotel, all of which I easily valued at $40-50/night for two people (yes, it would have cost me something similar to this for two people if I didn't have the benefits).
There are some good values with axon/glon awards at mid-upper mid tier properties. They get slammed big time because of their pretty massive devaluation, which really affected their top tier properties, which is what people are after...
 

janetdoe

Level 2 Member
Thought I'd just add a data point.

Recent stay in CA.
30k points
12k points and $50
MVP rate $79-99 depending on the night
Yes, Hilton is TERRIBLE for mid-range redemptions, often 20-30k points for a room that can be had for ~$100.

But I do think the travel hacking community undervalues Hilton in general due to 1) bitterness over devaluations 2) snobbishness because the top-level perks (Diamond) aren't really that different from the mid-level perks (Gold) and Gold is "too easy" to get.

I think with a Surpass card, it is probably the absolute best program for the 20-nights-a-year crowd, with IHG as a backup for really obscure locations and/or ridiculously good promos.
 

Paul

Level 2 Member
Yes, Hilton is TERRIBLE for mid-range redemptions, often 20-30k points for a room that can be had for ~$100.

But I do think the travel hacking community undervalues Hilton in general due to 1) bitterness over devaluations 2) snobbishness because the top-level perks (Diamond) aren't really that different from the mid-level perks (Gold) and Gold is "too easy" to get.

I think with a Surpass card, it is probably the absolute best program for the 20-nights-a-year crowd, with IHG as a backup for really obscure locations and/or ridiculously good promos.
Disagree with your analysis. HH is good for low tier and average for mid tier. About the only program that is clearly a better value at the low/mid tier range is Carlson with their second night free promo. Loyalty Lobby had a great analysis comparing all the major hotel programs a couple of years ago (done just after the large HH devaluation). Despite the devaluation, Hilton was consistently one of the better programs in all tiers (low/mid/high) and had no terrible redemption categories (which only highlighted how fantastically generous their program was prior to devaluation - you could get their top tier properties at $50/night - properties like Koh Samui and Maldives that were selling at $800-$1K/night). Add in large number of properties, with decent hotel brand distribution, ease of getting status thru spend, and it should be a program of choice for the Average Joe.

Why would you pay $100 for a room if you could use 20-30K HH? You can get HH points for about 0.2c via the Surpass card at grocery, so 20K HH = $40 and 30K = $60 cost.

I disagree with the notion that Diamond isn't much better than Gold. In properties that have executive floors, if you have Diamond status, you're going to be upgraded to at least an executive room with lounge access. And some are reporting high percentages of being upgraded into suites (particularly in Asia). So a 40K a night redemption at a place like Conrad BKK or HKG that costs you $80 could get you into a $500 suite with high odds of success. And the nice thing about HH is there is no limit on the number of suite upgrades you can get in a year (unlike most other programs).
 

janetdoe

Level 2 Member
Add in large number of properties, with decent hotel brand distribution, ease of getting status thru spend, and it should be a program of choice for the Average Joe.
Agreed, that's why I said it's the absolute best program for anyone who does less than 20 nights a year.

Why would you pay $100 for a room if you could use 20-30K HH? You can get HH points for about 0.2c via the Surpass card at grocery, so 20K HH = $40 and 30K = $60 cost.
1. I don't MS HH, so they are more scarce for me and I have much better uses for them than that.
2. At $100 / 30k points = 0.33 cpp, I can get better value by trading the HH. I consider anything less than 0.4 cpp leaving easy money on the table. Even Hilton lets you redeem directly at 0.33 cpp, that's basically the conversion rate used for 'premium room awards'.
3. The math is a little worse than you suggest because you lose the chance to earn 1200 points on the Hilton spend plus any bonuses, which can be an extra 2-3k given any decent promo.
4. You're right, 20k point for $100 pre-tax room would be a decent redemption at more than 0.5 cpp.

I disagree with the notion that Diamond isn't much better than Gold. In properties that have executive floors, if you have Diamond status, you're going to be upgraded to at least an executive room with lounge access. And some are reporting high percentages of being upgraded into suites (particularly in Asia). So a 40K a night redemption at a place like Conrad BKK or HKG that costs you $80 could get you into a $500 suite with high odds of success. And the nice thing about HH is there is no limit on the number of suite upgrades you can get in a year (unlike most other programs).
We've never had a problem getting exec floor access and occasionally suite upgrades in Asia/Europe with Gold status. We have traveled on both statuses and I haven't noticed a significant discrepancy in treatment. Maybe the Conrad Bali is an exception, I seem to recall that Diamonds have a strong edge there in getting into the Conrad Suites section.

Agreed, there are limited situations where Diamond provides a small incremental benefit (for example, the 10% chance you are in a hotel with a great lounge and you wouldn't get upgraded to the exec floor as a Gold, or the special Diamond Availability for award nights) but for most people it's not worth pursuing if they wouldn't hit it anyways.
 
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El Ingeniero

Level 2 Member
Agreed, there are limited situations where Diamond provides a small incremental benefit (for example, the 10% chance you are in a hotel with a great lounge and you wouldn't get upgraded to the exec floor as a Gold, or the special Diamond Availability for award nights) but for most people it's not worth pursuing if they wouldn't hit it anyways.
Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

I will get the Surpass and churn 5 Citi cards this year and stay 8 nights at the Conrad Bangkok and have points left over for a couple of nights in HK, total MS will be $8K or so at a cost $100.80, plus maybe 2 hours and a couple of gallons of gas counting the other grocery store MS I will do.
 
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