Europe summer 2017

DanR

Level 2 Member
Hi all,

We're planning our first family trip to Europe for next summer (4 of us, planning for the adults to be in business/first and kids in economy). I'm here asking for some advice on how I should go about this planning. I want to learn as much as I can about using the available tools out there to use my miles/points to their fullest and to make a great vacation.

All I know for certain is we're planning to visit Paris and Rome. We're planning to go 2-3 weeks with dates that are completely flexible between early June and end of August. More destinations are likely and I have interest in all sorts of other places (Croatia, Czech Republic, London). I'm thinking we'll hit other areas based upon award/routing availability during the time we go.

Based upon what I've read - United/Star Alliance seems to offer the most generous routing (with stopovers and open jaws) and I'm thinking that is the route we'll eventually take. I've read Drew's United routing rules, but I'm not quite sure when/how to go about building a complicated itinerary - or when/how I should be looking for award space.

I have plenty of currency available to me so that I could book a pretty awesome itinerary using anytime award space, but my goal is obviously to maximize what I have (Currently around 1MM UR, 550k AA, 175k MR).

What suggestions could you experts out there give to me for where to learn? Should I buy a pro expert flyer subscription? What else should I be reading?

TIA
 

DanR

Level 2 Member
We'll be flying out of MSP ideally, but I'm ok with a positioning flight really anwhere in the US (ORD and DTW are very easy places to get to from MSP).
 

sound48

Level 2 Member
How old are the kids? I've done it the last couple years and have found the least amount of flights the better if possible with kids. Do you need lie flat or anything will do?
 

DanR

Level 2 Member
I've got 2 girls that will be 13/11 at the time of the trip. They're both good travelers and I'm not too concerned with the number of flights, but agreed, I'll be trying to make it as direct as possible :) For us in business/first I definitely want lay flat for the transcontinental portion.
 

sound48

Level 2 Member
Since you're looking for 4 in summer it can be difficult. I've done it in business the last 2 summers and this summer will be my 3rd in a row. It's a long process, but it can be done.

I'd start by figuring out the different places you'd want to go and looking at all the different routing options. Since you're flexible, you don't have to be married to one place, but know the different options and keep checking. Try and figure out when award available is released on some routes. Some places have better award availability then others. If you already have enough miles to book, start figuring out a game plan of what you'd like to do and figure out the backups in case they never become available. Once you have a plan in place, check everyday until you can book. I saw you don't have delta miles, but they can surprisingly be worth something on certain routes. I'm from AA and UA country (Chicago), and was able to use Delta miles to get Europe this summer in business. If you're willing to pay a little more in cancellation fees, book a less desirable option as soon as it becomes available and cancel for a better one if something better comes up. With AA, if a really complicated routing is available that's not lay flat, it may worth booking so you can change if a better option becomes available later. As long as you don't change the origin and destination, I don't think there's a fee iirc.

Biggest thing is to constantly look, you'd be surprised what becomes available when you check everyday and you know where to look.
 

DanR

Level 2 Member
do you use expert flyer? What about Wandering Aramean's tool? What other ways are out there to search award availability from multiple airlines/alliances? I am planning continuous searching, but the idea of email/text alerts sounds nice :)
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
I have an ExpertFlyer subscription which I've used once and found useless. It's missing 90% of the airlines I fly, and I like to book the best thing I can find and be done with it. With all the itins I have it would be very confusing to get a random email saying hey this leg became available and I have to try to remember which trip it's for. But I'm the guy planning 10 trips right now so you might not have the problem ;)

A couple of things to consider:
-decide if there's any aspirational hotel you want to try
-Avios can be great for intra-EU flights (to/from a oneworld/BA partner hub).
-if you don't find anything now, chances are decent that an airline or two will briefly release a massive amount of award seats. Be on the lookout and be ready.
 

DanR

Level 2 Member
-Avios can be great for intra-EU flights (to/from a oneworld/BA partner hub).
are fuel surcharges passed along on intra-EU flights? Different depending on the oneworld partner? Any chance you have a good resource for learning more about using Avios in Europe?

Thanks!
 

italdesign

Level 2 Member
are fuel surcharges passed along on intra-EU flights? Different depending on the oneworld partner? Any chance you have a good resource for learning more about using Avios in Europe?

Thanks!
There's not much (if any) YQ, but taxes can be moderate. Direct flights generally have lower tax than connecting ones. Example: VIE-ARN on AB is 7,500 avios + $36 in tax. VIE-LHR-ARN on BA is 13,000 + $68 in tax. Of course, if you spend a day in UK and fly out, you pay the infamous UK passenger duty.

Note that avios are most helpful for getting to or from a oneworld or BA partner hub. Since the rate goes up with each segment, short distance direct flights represent the best deal. It's not generally useful for something like FCO-CDG, for example.

You can study the oneworld route map (just google it) to understand the hubs (they show up bigger). Then search on britishairways.com, which shows all oneworld partners (but not some non-oneworld partners like Aer Lingus).
 

dukerau

Level 2 Member
There's not much (if any) YQ, but taxes can be moderate. Direct flights generally have lower tax than connecting ones. Example: VIE-ARN on AB is 7,500 avios + $36 in tax. VIE-LHR-ARN on BA is 13,000 + $68 in tax. Of course, if you spend a day in UK and fly out, you pay the infamous UK passenger duty.
Note that if you have earned >= 1 Avios (Avio?) in the past 12 months, you qualify for Reward Flight Saver pricing. I believe transfers from Chase/Amex/SPG count, but not positive. Earnings from the BA card definitely do. With RFS, the cash component on all BA flights < 2000 miles in distance is $27.50. So VIE-LHR-ARN is $55 (instead of $68). Sometimes the savings is more significant, especially for ex-LON itineraries.
 

MickiSue

Level 2 Member
Dan, when we needed to get near Venice in late Oct, it was impossible on saver miles--the cooler weather brings out the tourists.

Flew in and out of MXP, which wasn't too long a train ride from Daughter's city.

There are fast trains from MXP to Rome, and the ride through the countryside becomes part of the vacation. That might work for one way of the trip. Sounds like a wonderful plan for you guys!
 

asthejoeflies

Moderator
Staff member
Hi Dan-

It feels like I've been writing about this/podcasting about this ad nauseum, but ICYMI, Delta is a gold mine to Europe this summer. There are four seats consistently in coach AND business from a lot of east coast cities to London and Amsterdam. For example, I just checked and on almost all days in July there are at least four seats direct MSP-AMS this summer in coach AND business. 30K each way coach, 62.5K business.

Obviously you are planning for next summer, but I'd suggest not ignoring Skymiles. Obviously there are no guarantees, but of the three legacy carriers, Delta has had the best award space for the past few months. Nobody talks about it because...I don't know why.

The caveat here is Delta's award charts are hidden now and they can devalue at any time without notice. That being said, for a family of four I always recommend coverage of all bases and Delta/MR seems to be where you are "poorest." If you were going this summer you could get either to or from Europe in coach with your 175K MR no problem
 

Renee

N0rthernbelle
For what it's worth, I'll share the itinerary I put together when I brought my fiance on his first trip to Europe last year. This was to maximize the open jaw and stopover allowed with United and to see some of the major sites that he was interested in.
we used UR points transferred to United

Outbound flight: IAD to AMS,
From Amsterdam we took a cheap easyjet flight to Berlin, then a train to Prague then an overnight train to Vienna,

Then our return flight was from VIE-CDG (stopover) and then CDG to IAD.
with the stopover at CDG, we were able to explore Paris, Normandy and the Loire valley (by car).

To put this together I sat down with the star alliance route map to figure out the most direct flight options and the best place to use a stopover. For me it was Paris because we wanted to see Prague and vienna and the CDG is a natural connection from vienna to IAD (so it made for a logical stopover).

I don't know if this was at all helpful, but it might give you an idea or two.
 

DanR

Level 2 Member
It's still a long ways away, but getting excited for our trip. We ended up deciding to leave our youngest behind with grandma and grandpa (she's really not equipped to handle Europe yet - we need to stick to the beach or Disney with her, still). Did 2 lowest award level tickets in Delta One MSP-CDG and FLR-CDG-MSP and my ticket was purchased in coach using TYP which I upgraded to D1 using my global upgrade certs from my newly manufactured delta status. We're planning to spend our first week in Paris, then heading to Rome for 2-3 days, and then ending in Florence before heading home. Still need to get our flights from CDG-FCO, but those are looking very cheap at this point and I'll likely purchase using TYPs. Planning to take a train from Rome to Florence.

Any recommendations for hotels in Paris? Looking at the PH Vendome, obviously, but I'm unsure if there will end up being any suite award availability. 3 people won't fit in the standard award room and no suite availability is showing now. When I DM'ed the hyatt concierge they told me award space opens usually 6 months out, but that seems strange since there is regular room award space currently. Anyone know if that is the truth? If not, I'm thinking about going the AirBNB route but am not sure where my best location would be. I'm hoping we can find something relatively close to the major tourist attractions, metro access, and nice restaurants.

Likewise - any tips on where to stay in Rome and Florence?

TIA
 
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