Carlson Took Away Bonus Nights!

nickelfish1

Level 2 Member
DANG IT!!!!
I'm trying to book the stay two night and get a free night in Iceland in Sept and it's gone as of June 1st.
I need to spend 10k per year in order to receive the free night. I might be right around there...but I'm unsure if that means I need to spend 10k starting June 1st or it is retroactive back to Jan 1st.
 

projectx

Level 2 Member
I'm not sure I understand... are you referring to the standard book two nights or more, get the last night free benefit? Looking on their website it's still there and doesn't mention an end date in the fine print.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
DANG IT!!!!
I'm trying to book the stay two night and get a free night in Iceland in Sept and it's gone as of June 1st.
I need to spend 10k per year in order to receive the free night. I might be right around there...but I'm unsure if that means I need to spend 10k starting June 1st or it is retroactive back to Jan 1st.
If you book by May 28 you still get the two night stay in the future.
 

nickelfish1

Level 2 Member
I'm not sure I understand... are you referring to the standard book two nights or more, get the last night free benefit? Looking on their website it's still there and doesn't mention an end date in the fine print.
It's on my statement that cut yesterday and the CSR confirmed the benefit change.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
No, you have to use it before June 1st. No future bookings from what the CSR said...and when she referred me to my statement that cut April 2nd..it says it there too.
Well either your CSR is wrong, which happens all the time or gleff is wrong as he is reporting on his update on his blog something else. I have a booking in September that I already made for two nights. No way they are going to start clawing those back. Sometimes the wording can be confusing on these things. I mean I know people who thought you had to STAY two nights to get the free night not stay one and get second free. At any rate, the discount on points is made at the time of booking, not when you stay. I have over 200K points and I think I need to do me some serious planning! You have to "use it before June 1" could just as well mean use the points in a future booking. It's new. There is bound to be confusion on this today.
 

midnightinharlem

Level 2 Member
My initial reaction was that people were overreacting by canceling the cards, but the more I look at it, the more I agree.

In my mind, it's effectively pay $60 annual fee + spend $12k for 40,000 points + 60,000 points + free night, or three nights @ 50,000/night for $60 + $240 opportunity cost = $300. Not great, not necessarily horrible? I've had some great redemptions for 28,000 and 38,000 points (+ free night), but it's effectively $100/night at their top tier spots.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
DANG IT!!!!
I'm trying to book the stay two night and get a free night in Iceland in Sept and it's gone as of June 1st.
I need to spend 10k per year in order to receive the free night. I might be right around there...but I'm unsure if that means I need to spend 10k starting June 1st or it is retroactive back to Jan 1st.
Try a dummy booking online. Don't talk to a CSR. If you log in and just do it online, see if you can get the second night free for Sept. now...I just went in and tried to book two nights in September and it gives them to me for 44K, not 88K.
 

nickelfish1

Level 2 Member
As soon as I saw Gleff referenced FM I went to his post instead. His follow up call indicates you have until end of May to book. Sooo...my CSR didn't understand the new rule. Also, he says the 10k spend starts at the end of May, too. That kinda stinks and I'm irritated I didn't get an email about the change. It was on the last page of my electronic statement. I never saw it. I scanned the statement and clicked out.

I'm going to book tonight what I need. But, I only need to book one night to get a free night, correct?
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
As soon as I saw Gleff referenced FM I went to his post instead. His follow up call indicates you have until end of May to book. Sooo...my CSR didn't understand the new rule. Also, he says the 10k spend starts at the end of May, too. That kinda stinks and I'm irritated I didn't get an email about the change. It was on the last page of my electronic statement. I never saw it. I scanned the statement and clicked out.

I'm going to book tonight what I need. But, I only need to book one night to get a free night, correct?
Frankly, I would get in there now to book while you can. If you have the credit card, you need to log in to your account and book your room for two nights. It will show 88K until you click through to the end and in red it will show it x'd out and 44K. If you know your dates, go ahead and book it. I was fairly certain your CSR didn't have a clue. You'll get an email eventually, but that is not that big a deal.
 

heavenlyjane

Level 2 Member
I just booked 4 nights in San Juan, PR for next President's Weekend. I still have remaining points that I need to use before the 2nd-night benefit goes away.
 

smittytabb

Moderator
Staff member
That kinda stinks and I'm irritated I didn't get an email about the change. It was on the last page of my electronic statement. I never saw it. I scanned the statement and clicked out.
Just got my email with the "Member Benefits Update". This is an amazing devaluation. Another reminder to earn and burn. Stunning.
 

arathorn

Level 2 Member
Also note that the annual free award night after $10k spend is only good for Carlson properties in the U.S.
 

Alpen_Geoff

Level 2 Member
I got the email but it's missing the paragraph about the 30k bonus for one night, CC twitter claims its for all cardholders though. Anyone else get the same email?
 

arathorn

Level 2 Member
Yeah, here's what was in the email I received:

And, to thank you for your continued loyalty, you can earn 30,000 bonus Gold Points® on your next Eligible Stay at a Carlson Rezidor hotel worldwide when you pay with your Club CarlsonSM Visa®. Offer ends August 31, 2015. Terms and conditions apply.*

* Bonus Points Offer Terms and Conditions

The 30,000 Bonus Points Offer (the "Offer") is available only to Club CarlsonSM Visa® cardholders. The Offer is valid for 30,000 bonus Gold Points® on an Eligible Stay between April 1, 2015 and August 31, 2015 ("Promotion Period"). One Offer per Club Carlson Visa account holder. You must provide your Club Carlson number at the time of reservation or at check-in and pay for your stay with your Club CarlsonSM Visa®. Stays or nights paid for by redeeming points or by using Points + Cash are not eligible for the Offer.
 

Alpen_Geoff

Level 2 Member
That's what I've seen posted but mine is missing that bit:


Dear Geoff,
As a valued Club CarlsonSM member and Club Carlson Visa® cardholder, we would like to tell you about an upcoming change to your Visa benefits.

Beginning June 1, 2015, you can earn a Free Night, good at any Carlson Rezidor hotel in the U.S. This Free Night will replace the current Bonus Award Night benefit. Bonus Award Night stays may not be booked after June 1, 2015. You'll receive the new Free Night award upon renewal of your card after an annual spend of $10,000. Updated program terms and conditions will apply and be available onJune 1, 2015.

Thank you for your continued loyalty.

oh well - they confirmed it on Twitter so I'll roll the dice on a booking
 

FlyingExplorer

Travel, Tastes, & Tennis
Is the card still worth keeping open?

Anniversary Bonus without Spend Requirement?
Do you still get the 40k anniversary bonus for paying the annual fee of $75/$60 without spend requirements?

New Point Values
I used to consider Club Carlson points to be worth 0.5 cents. At the valuation, 40k points are worth $200. Without the last-night-free benefit, the points are worth about half that for me.. So 40k points are still about $100. But cash is cash at it's a lot more flexible than Club Carlson points. So, I would definitely not get the cards for the anniversary bonus, but I might keep the cards open for now unless my points balance starts growing too much.

Evaluation of Free Night with $10k Spend
Putting $10k on the cards would generate 50k points worth about $125. Putting $10k on something like the Arrival card would generate about $220. So the cost for that Club Carlson night is about $95. Not bad, but I will probably evaluate whether it's worth it on a year-by-year basis and first I have to burn some Club Carlson points while the last-night-free benefit still exists.

I'm sure glad though that I didn't buy any in the recent Daily Getaway Deals as I was considering them.
 

What The Heck?

Master Blaster
While I am yet to recover fully from the Club Carlson massacre, I think it is important for us to determine if the CC card is worthy of MSing any more. Here are the factors to be considered in valuing CC points after this massacre.

1. No more BOGO.
2. Annual bonus of 1 free night after spending 10k in a year in any of CC hotels, "within US" (how generous :( ). May be they have 2 aspirational properties in US - Chicago and Phily.

Now to the comparison.

1. I would rate their top properties to not more than SPG or Hyatt category 3 & 4 respectively. 50k points vs 7k vs 15k. One has to spend 10k vs 7k vs 3k. Hyatt wins by a huge margin here.
2. If trying to compare with Category 7 of IHG at 35k, IHG wins during point breaks by a huge, huge margin and beats CC even during normal days with a spend of 7k vs 10k.
3. What about CC's close competitors Marriott and Hilton? In case of Marriott, let us consider Category 6 or even 7 for 30k and 35k for which spend to be generated is not more than 7k. In case of Hilton, let us take Category 7 which requires 30k to 60k points or 5k to 10k spend. Also don't forget 4 for 5 redemptions for both Marriott and Hilton which rates them higher than CC.
4. What the heck? Even Wyndham with the upcoming change will require 7.5k in spend to get a free night in their top property, if what they have advertised so far turns out to be true, though I would not trust them and place them in the same trustworthiness of CC.
5. I am not too familiar with Choice hotels but I think their top hotel is 35k which is again 7k spend.

That leaves CC the last in the popular list of chain hotels. In just one stroke the program has changed from most valuable to least valuable. Kudos to CC management for this remarkable acheivement.

Value perse, I don't think we can assign more than 0.15-0.20 cents per dollar per CC point, with the removal of BOGO. 5x will equal to .75-1% return. Even my credit union CC or PayPal card fetches better return as "cash back" at the lower end of that valuation and almost the same return at the higher end of the valuation at 1%, though cash back is much better than ever devaluing hotel currencies.

Some personal takeaways for me after this master stroke from CC:

1. Never trust any airline or hotel or bank. They are capable of screwing us at their will.
2. All these loyalty programs are nothing more than scams and lure us more in showing carrots and eventually turn us in to nothing short of addicts.
3. Cash is king, rich or poor. For regular MS, do not MS more than min spend on ANY of the loyalty program cards. Just not worth it.
4. Even for regular spend, use cards like Fidelity Amex. By doing so, I can derive a personal satisfaction that it is me who is screwing these hotels or airlines or banks and not vice versa.
5. Don't listen to anyone out there not advocating cashback cards and sells loyalty cards.

Thanks to CC for teaching me some important lessons and for helping me decide which card is better for regular spend and MS.

Note: I may be wrong in some of the assumptions i made above but my conclusion is cashback cards are superior to any program out there for most of us and families in particular.
 
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Mountain Trader

Level 2 Member
It seems you can book a stay for after May 28 and get bonus night. Does anyone know if you have to keep with credit card account open through the actual stay including the bonus night, or rather you could cancel the credit card after the booking but before the physical stay?
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
I used to think that Cash was king, but now I think points are. Points can be devalued, but even if they are they are often worth more than cash. The safest way to ensure that points are worth more than cash is to focus on collecting them via signup bonuses.

Remember cashback cards can screw you over just as easily... Fidelity is worldpoints. If they changed the rules of redemption you'd be stuck with worldpoints, not stuck with cash... once it hits cash stage (via burning) then they are good, but that is the same as when points hit redemption stage.

Whenever you 'invest' in an asset class you buy risk.
 

Rommie2k6

Level 2 Member
I used to think that Cash was king, but now I think points are. Points can be devalued, but even if they are they are often worth more than cash. The safest way to ensure that points are worth more than cash is to focus on collecting them via signup bonuses.

Remember cashback cards can screw you over just as easily... Fidelity is worldpoints. If they changed the rules of redemption you'd be stuck with worldpoints, not stuck with cash... once it hits cash stage (via burning) then they are good, but that is the same as when points hit redemption stage.

Whenever you 'invest' in an asset class you buy risk.
I redeem my points every month, so even if I am stuck with worldpoints, it's only 1 month loss.

Best way to deal with devaluation is to price it in your calculation. For example, I value CC points at 0.4ct/pt which does not take into account the free night offer. I do think OP valuation is a bit on the low side, CC points are like HH points without the free night offer.
 

henrygeorge

Level 2 Member
I used to think that Cash was king, but now I think points are.
Points are certainly more effort though, both by nature and with award availability drying up as more people join the game and learn how to find sweet-spot rewards.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Points are certainly more effort though, both by nature and with award availability drying up as more people join the game and learn how to find sweet-spot rewards.
Cash replaces effort, but you need a lot of it. For example... if you want to book an 'effortless' Business class seat to Tokyo, that's going to cost ya.
 

What The Heck?

Master Blaster
Cash replaces effort, but you need a lot of it. For example... if you want to book an 'effortless' Business class seat to Tokyo, that's going to cost ya.
Isn't that exactly what the banks are targeting for to lure more people in to CC and debt? Why always be a victim? Why can't we fly by coach? Even for occasional biz travel experience isnt signup bonuses and churning not adequate? I think MSing after signup bonuses must be in cashback cards. By the way, I transfer cashback from my Fidelity card to my cash mgmt account every month. That is hard cash to me.
 

What The Heck?

Master Blaster
I redeem my points every month, so even if I am stuck with worldpoints, it's only 1 month loss.

Best way to deal with devaluation is to price it in your calculation. For example, I value CC points at 0.4ct/pt which does not take into account the free night offer. I do think OP valuation is a bit on the low side, CC points are like HH points without the free night offer.
I don't think even Club Carlson values their points so much. If they do, they won't be selling those points at that rate. I always discount the point values by 50% of the selling price.
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Why always be a victim?
That is hard cash to me.
If you think of it as being hard cash, you are thinking like a victim. The truth is that it isn't hard cash until you convert it. This is EXACTLY the same as points being only valuable after you convert them to travel. If you think of it as hard cash then you will feel abused the same way when the Fido Amex changes and no longer allows cash redemption. It's all points until it changes.

It's great that you convert these monthly. Perhaps instead of thinking that is better we should wonder why we are not converting other points monthly, barring a flexible, transferable reserve.

I think MSing after signup bonuses must be in cashback cards.
I'm not really arguing with that, I just am not sure it is worth MSing after signup bonuses at all.
 

36902BRF

Level 2 Member
Not that I expect much but CC is hyping some "big reveal" on their Twitter feed. There is a remote possibility they might bring their rewards points for rooms more inline with other programs now that the bonus night is going away. Yes a long shot I know but I wouldn't cancel this card until one see's what shakes out on that.
 
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