AMEX Delta Gold Biz Card Welcome Offer "Reversed"

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Just got off chat with 2 AMEX reps. I was asking where my Delta Biz Gold welcome offer was ... it didn't post and it wasn't mentioned on my statement. I had 2 legitimate spends on this card ... one took care of most of the spend requirements. But it was spend (Landscaping) and it could be biz spend.

Anyway, my welcome offer was apparently rescinded without any notification. I had to see that it wasn't there and ask. I was also told this can't be reversed and you know what? I'm not going to fight it. I've closed the card and will close others. I have only ONE AMEX card I would prefer to keep, but 3 I don't really need including the one here.

So. It doesn't matter if you apparently get in on a bonus. It doesn't matter if you use organic spend to meet the requirement. AMEX can take back its offer "for any reason" and not even tell you.

For me, I think it's well past time to move away from the Big Banks and start focusing more on the smaller, local places. At least for real business. Both Chase and now AMEX have done funny things to me with new credit cards/apps. I, personally, can't trust them again.

Thanks for letting me vent.
 

asc8u

Level 2 Member
Sorry about that - totally lame of them.
Seems like there's no point in the signup bonus pop up if they don't stick to it.
 

jnjustice

New Member
There have been numerous instances of his all over reddit and other avenues. Did you press for a reason?
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
There have been numerous instances of his all over reddit and other avenues. Did you press for a reason?
They had a list of possible reasons ... snipped right out of legalese somewhere. Paraphrasing: AMEX can reverse a welcome offer for customers who have opened and closed cards for points, card abuse, something else and for any and no reason. I did press for a reason and the supervisor kept apologizing but also just repeated the list. I was completely dissatisfied with the whole thing. I closed the card on the spot with a knee-jerk reaction, which may mean I'm even out the 3k points that are there (although the statement has closed and payment is due in a week). I will close 2 other cards but will think a little harder before I do and time it right for my benefit. I have 2 of my wife's cards to close with prejudice, too, once recent points post.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
They had a list of possible reasons ... snipped right out of legalese somewhere. Paraphrasing: AMEX can reverse a welcome offer for customers who have opened and closed cards for points, card abuse, something else and for any and no reason. I did press for a reason and the supervisor kept apologizing but also just repeated the list. I was completely dissatisfied with the whole thing. I closed the card on the spot with a knee-jerk reaction, which may mean I'm even out the 3k points that are there (although the statement has closed and payment is due in a week). I will close 2 other cards but will think a little harder before I do and time it right for my benefit. I have 2 of my wife's cards to close with prejudice, too, once recent points post.
Here's text snipped from the chat window from last night. This is after the first-line CSR provided similar but better-formed English text. It's like the copy/paste left a couple of reasons (I've bolded the mashed fragments):

"Thank you for waiting.

I checked it for you and I'm sorry you are not eligible for the welcome bonus. And the reason could be Account history shows accounts opened and closed frequently to get welcome bonus.Has a previous same product account that is cancelled. Any of these reasons.

American Express reserves the right to modify or revoke this offer at any time for any reason, including misuse of your Card account or the reward program."

Note the "could be". Never a specific. "For any reason" is the interesting part.

I've not really been too aggressive with AMEX cards. I'm not a major player. I have 2 Delta cards with balances (new and I've never had any card twice) that are still open, a no fee Hilton card that had just been used for Hilton spend and a BB+ that sees TONS of spend, I'm not sure I'm a bad customer. But this isn't a gamble I will take again. Not anytime soon at least.

Note that I did get the Delta personal and biz cards in relatively close proximity. The personal points posted promptly BEFORE I applied for the biz.

Completely unexpected and unbelievable. I'll recover easy enough, but a head-scratcher for sure.
 
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knick1959

Level 2 Member
Hmmm. Thinking about it, while I don't feel I've been abusive at all to AMEX, if they happened to do a deep-dive into my credit report, they would easily see that I've been a terribly bad customer to CITI. I'm aggressively churning the AA cards and I don't really intend to change my ways until the rules change and stop me. Could they have looked at non-AMEX activity? After approving me for the card and then not telling me they did?

I did obtain my latest AA card around 1/1.
 

kuchbhi001

New Member
Given how frequently this is happening, I wonder if there will eventually be a class action against AMEX for false advertising. They are advertising a reward for purchasing a product but with the condition that they can decide at their own discretion not to give that reward with no obligation of providing a reason for it and no way to appeal that decision. They could, in theory, decide not to give bonus to anyone and yet be within those "terms". I don't think any single person will find it worth their time to fight this on their own, but as a class action this could be worthwhile.
 

jnjustice

New Member
Given how frequently this is happening, I wonder if there will eventually be a class action against AMEX for false advertising. They are advertising a reward for purchasing a product but with the condition that they can decide at their own discretion not to give that reward with no obligation of providing a reason for it and no way to appeal that decision. They could, in theory, decide not to give bonus to anyone and yet be within those "terms". I don't think any single person will find it worth their time to fight this on their own, but as a class action this could be worthwhile.
I'm a bit surprised too. It is a bit disheartening to meet the terms on your end and then have the bank not meet their end of the terms simply because they do not want to pay out. Who even makes these decisions? Likely a computer program but still.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Have you had this card before?
No. And since I'm here again anyway, I did check my Delta account and the 3061 miles I "earned" from the spend were posted to my account on 1/19. So I didn't lose those ... just the bonus ... and it was OK that I closed the card as a knee-jerk.
 

jnjustice

New Member
it was OK that I closed the card as a knee-jerk.
If you closed this card as a result of not getting the bonus, especially under a year when the AF is likely waived then I would probably give warning that Amex probably won't take that well and probably would deny you a bonus in the future based on that.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
If you closed this card as a result of not getting the bonus, especially under a year when the AF is likely waived then I would probably give warning that Amex probably won't take that well and probably would deny you a bonus in the future based on that.
There aren't many more "new" cards of interest for me to get, and this potential loss isn't much of one if they can take away the bonuses anyway. I'm not interested in counting on them in the future anyway which was the point I made when I had the CSR close the card. I feel a letter to their executive branch IS in my future; not that it will do anything, but I'll feel better.
 

jnjustice

New Member
There aren't many more "new" cards of interest for me to get, and this potential loss isn't much of one if they can take away the bonuses anyway. I'm not interested in counting on them in the future anyway which was the point I made when I had the CSR close the card. I feel a letter to their executive branch IS in my future; not that it will do anything, but I'll feel better.
I understand why you'd be frustrated but Amex is a major player in the rewards space. Hopefully there are other cards you can benefit from as well and get as many points. (Not being sarcastic or anything).
 

projectx

Level 2 Member
Have there been a lot of DPs of this happening? I personally haven't seen them. I was planning on applying for the biz and personal next time the public bonus moves to 60k+ (I'm never targeted) but your story gives me pause, given I was just approved for the Gold and have the SPG card on my wish list as well.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Have there been a lot of DPs of this happening? I personally haven't seen them. I was planning on applying for the biz and personal next time the public bonus moves to 60k+ (I'm never targeted) but your story gives me pause, given I was just approved for the Gold and have the SPG card on my wish list as well.
Someone mentioned that FT and reddit have other reports of this happening. Personally, as stated, I was taken by surprise by this action. In short, I was pissed. I DID NOT mention that I had, before I started spending (about a month or so after getting the card, because I had a large landscaping job coming that I wanted to use for the MSR) I chatted with a rep who confirmed the bonus. I only did this to confirm how much I needed to spend. I was good to go and needed only $3k (I had noted I needed 4k for some reason). Somewhere between that contact and the next statement it was rescinded. While I was out of the country for some time, there was no notification at all.

I've been doing the miles/points thing for some time and over that time have acquired quite a few AMEX cards. A few have stuck and the BB+ is my primary not-otherwised-bonus-spend card. Others have been closed when the next fee was due. I had acquired most of my "lifetime" allotment of the cards I was interested in. But the Delta cards were hanging out there. The personal card was no problem and I made sure to use organic spend for the whole MSR. This is still open. The biz card made sense and 2 organic charges met the MSR, one was that large landscaping charge. Was that a red flag? How could it be? It was a real charge I had to put somewhere.

So I've been warned I've put other AMEX cards in jeopardy. Well, I get that. But how hard do I try for the next "new" card after being jacked-around like this? Chase is a big player, too, but I can't get a new card there (over 5/24) and they messed with me recently too ... to where I'll slowly move my real money in real accounts elsewhere over the coming months. I have nothing but credit cards at AMEX, but with a small very small pool of cards that are still technically available to me followed by their current action? Writing them off isn't a big deal for me. Perhaps I'll try again in a few years. In the meantime I'm already thinking hard about how to use MS on existing cards to maintain my newish travel lifestyle!
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
So. A week or so ago I escalated my issue with an email to the Excecutive Offices of AMEX. I did not really expect anything to happen (in a positive vein) but it was worth a shot and it WAS a shitty turn of events worth a vent.

Yesterday I got a text saying they were still researching the issue, which was surprising enough.

Today I got a direct phone call from their office. A nice and perfectly diplomatic woman, a master at customer support issues, gave me a long speech. In the end, I'm still SOL and the "we can do anything we want for any reason" rule was her final answer. She pointed to my history, which I still insist shows only very minor traces of abuse, if you go back 5-6 years. She mentioned that it isn't just me, that there is an effort to scrutinize all new accounts. I told her that I had researched this issue on the internet and that I did see evidence of this and that there are some ... I think I called it "bad undertones" or something. I mentioned that I didn't see this as a good thing for AMEX's image, but if that's what they are going to do, that's what they get.

I asked in all honesty why I would ever risk trying to get an AMEX credit card again? No answer. I told her I was unlikely to ever try and I mean that. At least for the next few years ... perhaps longer. She understood and appreciated my feedback ... again, obviously a well practices diplomat. I thanked her for her time and we parted ways.

I do personally hold 3 AMEX cards, 2 of them long-time holders, one of which will be closed soon. I think. Although with a card now worthless to me. I suppose I'll tiptoe around using my BB+ card to continue building my MR point base. Because I have it and it benefits me with no negatives.

My other card that I can cancel if I want: The no-fee Hilton card. I get upgrade offers for the $450 fee card all the time; not interested. Anyone think they'll ever offer an upgrade deal to the mid-tier card? And will they scrutinize any bonus offered with the same vigor? Probably nothing to lose sleep over.

On a side note - I have nothing to indicate they've linked me to my wife's full set of AMEX cards (although my name is on many as an AU). Not sure what I do there in the future ... because as you probably might guess, I control that collection, too. And "she" has been just as trivially abusive over time, although she has more long-term keepers that are actually used than I do. However, her PRG will need to be closed and the Bonvoy card isn't going to remain either. Well, not unless they offer another short term spend bonus again.

Ok. I'm done. I appreciate the chance to vent! I'm now 0/2 with letters to executive offices. Not a good track record.
 
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projectx

Level 2 Member
How on earth are they going to scrutinize ALL new accounts? There must be something in your activity (justified or not) that tripped the alarm. Regardless... if I were in your shoes I would be really frustrated as well.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
How on earth are they going to scrutinize ALL new accounts? There must be something in your activity (justified or not) that tripped the alarm. Regardless... if I were in your shoes I would be really frustrated as well.
I keep trying to figure this out too. And my very near term history is not typical of what I've done in the past. I was approved for the personal delta gold, met the MSR with organic spend in a month and immediately applied for the biz gold. That sat for a month before I met the MSR with those 2 spends ... a landscaping bill took care of all but a couple hundred dollars of it. So, 2 Delta cards in a short timeframe and a single monster charge? Maybe.

No reason to keep my personal Delta card open now. I'll ponder it for a couple of days to make sure I'm not missing an angle, then shut it down. I'm still leaning towards closing the Hilton card, but I've had that for a couple/3? years and it isn't causing me any grief. And AMEX won't care OR notice.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
So. With the above story relatively fresh in my mind, I waffled back and forth on my next venture. I decided to hold the AMEX Hilton No Fee card even though my knee-jerk from above was to close it. After thinking about it, a no fee card does AMEX no real good. And I used it for extras during a recent Hilton stay and got a point multiplier, so that felt good (small win - I had $36 in charges or some-such).

Using a recent blog links that claimed that no fee -> Hilton Ascend upgrades were not being offered for 150k points, I was intrigued. I mean, this is REALLY why I kept the card; so as to be able to updated if/when AMEX offered this. But all I was seeing, until now, was an Aspire upgrade offer of no interest to me. Checking this, I qualified for the offer. I had to think about it all evening, but finally decided I had to go for it. If RATs were going to deny me this for "whatever reason they care to make up" then the card is dead to me anyway.

The upgrade went through. So I now get to pay $95 and spend 3k in 3 months and wait to see if I am denied the bonus again. I'll make sure to take baby steps this time (no monster landscaping bills ... although there are some Big Spends to be made that would fit for this, but I can do small, regular spend ok too).

If denied, I'll do some higher-level complaining (CFPB, although I hear they are running ragtag now). But I'm not there yet and will try to be optimistic.
 

I Can See For Miles

Level 2 Member
It sucks, it's bull spit, and I probably would've filed a CFPB complaint, as it seems, for whatever reason, AMEX is often responsive to them when the consumer has good cause. That said ... this is a Game we all play, knowing we almost always win, but ... occasionally, even unfairly, we sometimes lose. Instead of holding a grudge against AMEX, I'd dust off my uniform and try to take them for more cash and awards. A "principled" stand only hurts yourself.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
It sucks, it's bull spit, and I probably would've filed a CFPB complaint, as it seems, for whatever reason, AMEX is often responsive to them when the consumer has good cause. That said ... this is a Game we all play, knowing we almost always win, but ... occasionally, even unfairly, we sometimes lose. Instead of holding a grudge against AMEX, I'd dust off my uniform and try to take them for more cash and awards. A "principled" stand only hurts yourself.
Thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure my approach is principled ... I see it all as logical decisions. If I'm being denied bonuses as a blanket rules (if it happens again) I need to quit going for them until I get a change. If I've upgraded a card for a bonus and I don't get it, and I had the card mostly for just this opportunity, it's time to get rid of it. Only after complaining a bit and trying harder to get it. But I'm not expecting that; just prepared for it. ITMT I want to increase my MS on my BB+ and see what I can do with ebates and my wife's collection of cards. But principled as far as not paying fees that don't benefit me? Seems like standard common sense for miles/points junkies.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
I apologize for not reading slowly and carefully enough. Reading more carefully, I see we're on the same wavelength.
Thanks. Not a big deal, but I'm all for sticking it to AMEX where I can. But my options are limited at this time; have gotten "most" cards and am clearly labeled a perk abuser by the denial of the Delta bonus, even when I did that one properly. I'm upset with myself for NOT chasing with CFPB ... maybe it's not too late but it feels like it is. And the minor concern that I won't get the Hilton upgrade bonus is also real, although I certainly will chase them on this one, if denied.

AMEX is not my friend at the moment, and for a different reason, neither is Chase. I'm sure after awhile I will be able to operate freely again (a year? 2? 7? not sure yet but there's plenty to do elsewhere ITMT). And my wife is still in a decent place with both although still fairly lol/24 herself. We'll see, but I appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

Hmmmm. I don't think it would hurt to file a CFPB claim even if a few months out. What can it hurt, eh? Let me find the letter I sent to their Executive office ...
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Hmmmm. I don't think it would hurt to file a CFPB claim even if a few months out. What can it hurt, eh? Let me find the letter I sent to their Executive office ...
And even that post was 6 weeks ago; almost 6 months ago was my letter to AMEX executives where the response was to pound salt. However, I just now did submit a complaint. I used the letter sent as the source of the details but added text to the complaint form. What did I ask for? My original 60k Delta miles as promised. Do I expect to see these? No. Maybe they'll shut me down completely for the complaint. That would be a different complaint, eh? Anyway, not prompt, but checked off the list.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
And even that post was 6 weeks ago; almost 6 months ago was my letter to AMEX executives where the response was to pound salt. However, I just now did submit a complaint. I used the letter sent as the source of the details but added text to the complaint form. What did I ask for? My original 60k Delta miles as promised. Do I expect to see these? No. Maybe they'll shut me down completely for the complaint. That would be a different complaint, eh? Anyway, not prompt, but checked off the list.
And today my 60k Delta miles were delivered. Same snotty attitude in the explanation letter from them still claiming they are allowed. I guess I'm done and in the end I have my miles. But it was a painful process. This is the second time I've made use of the CFPB with positive results both times (first time was a CITI Gold AA bonus miles issue).
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Congrats. Assume you got your Ascend upgrade bonus too?
I did. I was quite watchful until the bonus actually posted, but it did. I assume the safe move is to wait for the fee to post to the card before downgrading? I did upgrade/downgrade this card once before under its previous names but I don't remember being careful about it. This time I want to cross all of the T's.

I do still have 2 productive AMEX cards: The Blue Biz Plus and the Hilton card, with the latter only productive for the upgrade offers. The Aspire upgrade offer is still there, but I don't want to make THAT investment.
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Because I mentioned my wife's AMEX holdings upstream, I'll provide an update there. We've had no real problems with AMEX with her accounts. However, the collection is slowly shrinking ... but not as fast as I predicted.

We ultimately canceled her SPG/Bonvoy card. We've had this one for quite some time. We had tried to cancel the year before when the AF posted but they made us a retention offer that made minor sense. So we kept it then, but not this year. No real offer was made. Closed.

When the fee for her PRG card posted we called in to cancel. We were offered 10k to keep it (if we pay the fee) and that worked so we did. Now I read that the $100 airlines credit is harder to claim AND we have yet to see the 10k (it's on my list to ask about). But I never before realized it was good for 4x at restaurants (and grocery stores) so it might come in handy still. Better if I can get the 10k to materialize and find a way to use the airline credit after 1/1.

The fee is due on her Delta Biz card, by my notes, next month. That card will be closed. She will be left with 3 cards, 2 of them no fee.
 

Walmero

Level 2 Member
Anybody have upgrade points for hilton cards not post within a few days of hitting spend (but then get them at some point later?
 

knick1959

Level 2 Member
Anybody have upgrade points for hilton cards not post within a few days of hitting spend (but then get them at some point later?
I did this recently and they didn't instantly post. But I didn't really keep track of things by-date either. I seem to feel that the bonus didn't post until the next statement was ready ... I did get them tho.

Still waiting to see 10k MR for my wife's PRG retention offer tho. I'm going to have to poke them if it doesn't hit THIS statement.

Update: It's way later, but the 10k retention bonus did post and while not blazingly fast, they did come before I was completely worried.
 
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Walmero

Level 2 Member
Wondering if I stacked up upgrade offers a bit too close together so that the 3 month spend window in the 1st somehow is impacting the second...
 
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