Air France pay or miles?

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
Oh. Not sure how to check that. Maybe cash is better on balance cause I get miles, though Flying blue not my best idea
 

Mountain Trader

Level 2 Member
Factors to consider include:

1. Availability of award vs assumed open schedule with cash.

2. Total cost of each choice, including all fees, costs to get to gateway, forced stopovers, etc.

3. Value of miles earned with cash and which program(s) AF lets you credit them to.

4. Your view of the world-in the end, it comes down to whether you would rather have the miles or the cash in your pocket after your trip. That low fare is pretty good and you could argue for keeping the miles to use when a cheap fare is not available. But all that is relative to how many other trips you can take with the miles, what your other uses are for the cash, etc.
 

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
OK thanks. I don't have the miles but can use Chase UR to buy them. Fees are only $23.40 I don't understand costs to gateway. I have to go to gateway no matter whether I pay cash or miles. What are forced stopovers? don't I just fly where I am going?
 

Mountain Trader

Level 2 Member
Are you talking about an Air France award, RT USA to Europe? If so, there will indeed be fees-likely around $350 for a round trip in business class. If someone knows otherwise, please jump in.

AF (and every airline) only flies to and from certain ciities in the US-this is called a gateway. If you buy a ticket, say ORD-CDG RT, but you live in Omaha, your paid fare will include the overwater AF flights (ORD-CDG), plus flights on one of their Sky Miles partners (likely Delta) to get to the city where you'll connect with your AF flight (eg. Omaha to ORD). Obviously if you live in a city from which AF flies, then you are already at your gateway.

However, using an award you may find there is award space available on the AF flights but not on one or both of the flights to get you to/from the gateway city. Thus you need to buy what are called "positioning" flights to get to the gateway and they add to the cost of your award since you pay cash for those flights which are not included in your award.

A forced stopover could occur if, for example, you can fly to your gateway only on Tuesday to connect to a Wednesday AF flight. You'll need a hotel, meals, etc. for your "forced stopover".

Suggested Reading: If your interest is AF awards, look on Flyer Talk in the Flying Blue section for thread that discuss awards and routing. Stickies at the top of that area are often filled with good info.
 

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
When I found the award on ÀF Flying Blue ít only said $23.50 each way in fees. I travel most of the year and have never flown to a "gateway" or any other city. We just use ground transportation, usually a car service these days. OK sorry, I sort of understood you. We live within 3 hours of JFK and IAD and less from EWR, PHL, BWI so we are pretty much covered.

At our age I don't take flights that get me in late at night (exccept in and out of DXB there may not be a choice. We sometimes arrive in SIN very early morning, but my hotel of choice there pretty much always lets us check in.

My major question here was, do I want to use 125K(times 2 since my wife and I travel together) UR points to "buy" AF Business to Paris or am I better off just spending the cash. The Points Guy says AF points worth 1.3 cents so I'd be getting 2 cents but maybe I could do better like I used 420K UR to transfer to KE for EK First JFK-DXB-JFK
 

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
If I lived in Omaha, God help me. PA is bad enough these days. Thanks for your input. I'm old and mymind doesn't work as well as it used to.
 

Mountain Trader

Level 2 Member
When I found the award on ÀF Flying Blue ít only said $23.50 each way in fees. I travel most of the year and have never flown to a "gateway" or any other city. We just use ground transportation, usually a car service these days. OK sorry, I sort of understood you. We live within 3 hours of JFK and IAD and less from EWR, PHL, BWI so we are pretty much covered.

At our age I don't take flights that get me in late at night (exccept in and out of DXB there may not be a choice. We sometimes arrive in SIN very early morning, but my hotel of choice there pretty much always lets us check in.

My major question here was, do I want to use 125K(times 2 since my wife and I travel together) UR points to "buy" AF Business to Paris or am I better off just spending the cash. The Points Guy says AF points worth 1.3 cents so I'd be getting 2 cents but maybe I could do better like I used 420K UR to transfer to KE for EK First JFK-DXB-JFK
That $23.50 of fees is great news if it holds up. Can you get that up again and take a screenshot-maybe we can figure out how to work it.

The concept of a gateway and forced overnight are intertwined-you have to get to the overseas flight. The term gateway is just a shortcut for the airport from which your overseas flight leaves. Sounds like you do it with ground transportation, which is ideal-I'm jealous. But for someone who does have to fly to connect with the overseas flight, there can be a case where you can only get an award flight to the gateway on one day, and you can only get the overseas flight on the next day.

Like you, I don't like to select flights that get in after a certain hour, nor do we choose ones that leave early. Howeve, to stitch together a complicated itinerary where there is limited availability, necessity sometimes dictates.
 

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
I may have found the solution. AX Platinum has a deal on Business or First Companion fares plus gives 5X points on airfares booked with them or directly with an airline. I could buy one, get a deal on the other one and get 5X points convertibole to SQ or wherever.
 

dukerau

Level 2 Member
I may have found the solution. AX Platinum has a deal on Business or First Companion fares plus gives 5X points on airfares booked with them or directly with an airline. I could buy one, get a deal on the other one and get 5X points convertibole to SQ or wherever.
Price it out. Amex's International Airline Program is for refundable business and first companion fares. The $2500 fare you found is almost certainly not refundable. Amex's price for one ticket could be well above $5000, so even with the companion fare "free" (+taxes/fees), you'd be worse off.
Code:
http://thepointsguy.com/2016/06/amex-platinum-companion-fare/
Do you have the Business Platinum card and 500k Amex points? If so, you could redeem 500k points for the 2x $2520 Air France tickets you found and you'll get 250k points refunded to you. So net you've paid 125k points per ticket, but it's a mileage-earning ticket.

Code:
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2016/10/06/amex-biz-platinum-50-bonus-minor-game-changer-heres/
 

Hanoi IG

Level 2 Member
Price it out. Amex's International Airline Program is for refundable business and first companion fares. The $2500 fare you found is almost certainly not refundable. Amex's price for one ticket could be well above $5000, so even with the companion fare "free" (+taxes/fees), you'd be worse off.
Code:
http://thepointsguy.com/2016/06/amex-platinum-companion-fare/
Do you have the Business Platinum card and 500k Amex points? If so, you could redeem 500k points for the 2x $2520 Air France tickets you found and you'll get 250k points refunded to you. So net you've paid 125k points per ticket, but it's a mileage-earning ticket.

Code:
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2016/10/06/amex-biz-platinum-50-bonus-minor-game-changer-heres/
No but thanks for the input. Actually no x 2 lol
 
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